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I really hope more people would use Tangled (https://tangled.org/ https://tangled.org/) You get: - Self hosting your git hosting (if you want) - Self h

I really hope more people would use Tangled (https://tangled.org/ https://tangled.org/) You get: - Self hosting your git hosting (if you want) - Self hosting your issues/PRs (if you want) - Self hosting your CI (if you want) - Github-like social features (I have one account, I can follow, star, add issues and PRs to any repo on tangled) It's built on ATProto, so even if the company disappears, all of the integration and features will still work for anyone that wants to run their own AppView (that is open-source), an AppView is basically the UI/Network-wide Data Aggregator for ATProto apps

verdverm 2mo ago
Tangled is forcing some of their particular technologies (nix/rust) on users for those pieces and that is a hard sell. I don't use those techs, so I'm not interested to use a platform that I need to learn them to use. fwiw, the main site also seems to be down right now, infinite spinner. Docs and blog are loading though
- LelouBil 2mo ago
  What does "forcing" mean here ? If you want to build an alternative Knot implementation (git Hosting) you can use anything as long as the API is compatible ? Same for all of the parts of Tangled really Also, even if it's down, unlike GitHub you can self host your own AppView so it's never down for you
  - verdverm 2mo ago
    > you can self host your own AppView so it's never down for you Self hosted servers go down too and why people have picked hosted solutions like GitHub, Bitbucket, and GitLab
    - icy 2mo ago
      Great! Then we've got a hosted solution at tangled.org. :)
      - verdverm 2mo ago
        no thanks, not interested ;] atproto is a red flag for me now, toxic leaders at bluesky, who effectively control the protocol, it's not really open for others to have a say in what it looks like you also don't have private repos and you will need to have centralized app view permission addons to have parity with user expectations, given the weak permissioned data proposal bluesky chose (their own proposal that works for what they need)
- icy 2mo ago
  > Tangled is forcing some of their particular technologies (nix/rust) on users for those pieces and that is a hard sell. I don't use those techs, so I'm not interested to use a platform that I need to learn them to use. Tangled CEO here. How are we pushing Rust exactly? :D Nix, yes but you don't really need to touch it at all with our Alpine-based CI images. We have been under heavy load the past day or so, we're working round the clock to scale!
  - verdverm 2mo ago
    > We have been under heavy load the past day or so, we're working round the clock to scale! GitHub is saying the same thing re: pushing, when I looked many months ago, it looked very much like the rust/nix/jj club, who are on average very opinionated about "good" tech choices and try to shoehorn others into using them. It's a culture I'm not interested in being around
    - LelouBil 2mo ago
      The difference with GitHub is you can also use it if the main instance is down if you self host. (And again self hosting still gets you the interconnection benefits just like if everyone was on tangled.org)
      - verdverm 2mo ago
        you can also buy GitHub Enterprise onprem and get a managed, self-hosted experience, thereby avoiding the public GitHub downtime downtime and self-hosting is not a reason most people are convinced to move forges, it takes a lot to get someone there
        LelouBil 2mo ago
        I don't think you understood. You can still get a feature complete social experience that is NOT ISOLATED from anyone. Your GitHub Enterprise comparison is wrong, because with an onprem github entreprise you don't have the social github features (and that's the whole point of tangled, use something else if you want a private forge for your company, it's not for this purpose) My point is, Tangled being on ATProto, you can still access all of the repos, PRs and issues of other people by looking through your self-hosted appview even if the official appview is down, because an appview, is just that, an "app *view*" It's the view layer in your traditional app, and ATProto is the database. It's a view of the data on the ATProto network, it is not the data holder, everyone can be their own data holder that is visible through any appview. > downtime and self-hosting is not a reason most people are convinced to move forges, it takes a lot to get someone there Yes, I agree, but I personally think tangled is great because of the interoperability People on codeberg, on gitlab, on github, on self-hosted gitea instances, on self hosted gitlab instances, and so on, all control their issues, PRs, and git repos (they run on their own infra) but they are also more independent, are not subject to a central platform's policies (or are subject to the one they prefer) and so on, and they also introduce contributor friction, you need separate accounts, it can be difficult to cross reference issues and PRs accross projects on different forges, users can't easily have a central feed of project they starred. On tangled you get to have the first part (freedom) while not having the second downside (unique account, cross-references work seamlessly, etc...) Give me reasons open source projects moved forges away from github, and I am pretty sure if tangled did exist when they did so it would fit more boxes of "why they left" than their target forge.
- conradludgate 2mo ago
  Spindles (CI) can use configurable engines, which includes nixery or microvm (which is similar to github actions). You're not forced into nixos I don't understand how it forces you to engage with Rust. It happens to be written in Rust but that shouldn't be a major consideration for a user
darccio 2mo ago
Just to clarify, when you say "self host issues/PRs" is it mostly "self host a knot"? I kind of expected something similar to what you can do for CI but I'm not able to find any docs regarding self hosting issues and PRs outside of Tangled itself.
- LelouBil 2mo ago
  Oh I meant that as part of tangled, you can "control" your issues and PRs because they are on ATProto and just like any ATProto record can be hosted on any PDS you like and still be interoperable. But after looking a bit more into it, they are still following the same model as Bluesky in that the author of an issue or comment or PR is the owner of the resource, and it lives on their PDS, but they are considering changing that (and I hope they do it soon) by having the record be created on the repo PDS (so the knot basically) and a pointer record on the user's PDS proving they are the author. ATProto has all that's required to do so, so I hope they do it soon, they are still in alpha after all but I find the interoperability very promising because you can have independent code hosting regardless of the opinions of forge X (which I think is the main reason why people move away from GitHub), but still be a part of an interoperable ecosystem that acts just like it is a single platform.
  - darccio 2mo ago
    Indeed, this approach sounds like the way to go for a really independent ecosystem. Thanks for the clarification and the additional insight!
AgentME 2mo ago
Is non-self-hosting available for all of those things on Tangled? I don't want to run my own CI but I do want CI. I couldn't figure out if it was available last time I looked at Tangled.

verdverm 2mo ago

Tangled is forcing some of their particular technologies (nix/rust) on users for those pieces and that is a hard sell. I don't use those techs, so I'm not interested to use a platform that I need to learn them to use. fwiw, the main site also seems to be down right now, infinite spinner. Docs and blog are loading though

LelouBil 2mo ago
What does "forcing" mean here ? If you want to build an alternative Knot implementation (git Hosting) you can use anything as long as the API is compatible ? Same for all of the parts of Tangled really Also, even if it's down, unlike GitHub you can self host your own AppView so it's never down for you
- verdverm 2mo ago
  > you can self host your own AppView so it's never down for you Self hosted servers go down too and why people have picked hosted solutions like GitHub, Bitbucket, and GitLab
  - icy 2mo ago
    Great! Then we've got a hosted solution at tangled.org. :)
    - verdverm 2mo ago
      no thanks, not interested ;] atproto is a red flag for me now, toxic leaders at bluesky, who effectively control the protocol, it's not really open for others to have a say in what it looks like you also don't have private repos and you will need to have centralized app view permission addons to have parity with user expectations, given the weak permissioned data proposal bluesky chose (their own proposal that works for what they need)
icy 2mo ago
> Tangled is forcing some of their particular technologies (nix/rust) on users for those pieces and that is a hard sell. I don't use those techs, so I'm not interested to use a platform that I need to learn them to use. Tangled CEO here. How are we pushing Rust exactly? :D Nix, yes but you don't really need to touch it at all with our Alpine-based CI images. We have been under heavy load the past day or so, we're working round the clock to scale!
- verdverm 2mo ago
  > We have been under heavy load the past day or so, we're working round the clock to scale! GitHub is saying the same thing re: pushing, when I looked many months ago, it looked very much like the rust/nix/jj club, who are on average very opinionated about "good" tech choices and try to shoehorn others into using them. It's a culture I'm not interested in being around
  - LelouBil 2mo ago
    The difference with GitHub is you can also use it if the main instance is down if you self host. (And again self hosting still gets you the interconnection benefits just like if everyone was on tangled.org)
    - verdverm 2mo ago
      you can also buy GitHub Enterprise onprem and get a managed, self-hosted experience, thereby avoiding the public GitHub downtime downtime and self-hosting is not a reason most people are convinced to move forges, it takes a lot to get someone there
      - LelouBil 2mo ago
        I don't think you understood. You can still get a feature complete social experience that is NOT ISOLATED from anyone. Your GitHub Enterprise comparison is wrong, because with an onprem github entreprise you don't have the social github features (and that's the whole point of tangled, use something else if you want a private forge for your company, it's not for this purpose) My point is, Tangled being on ATProto, you can still access all of the repos, PRs and issues of other people by looking through your self-hosted appview even if the official appview is down, because an appview, is just that, an "app *view*" It's the view layer in your traditional app, and ATProto is the database. It's a view of the data on the ATProto network, it is not the data holder, everyone can be their own data holder that is visible through any appview. > downtime and self-hosting is not a reason most people are convinced to move forges, it takes a lot to get someone there Yes, I agree, but I personally think tangled is great because of the interoperability People on codeberg, on gitlab, on github, on self-hosted gitea instances, on self hosted gitlab instances, and so on, all control their issues, PRs, and git repos (they run on their own infra) but they are also more independent, are not subject to a central platform's policies (or are subject to the one they prefer) and so on, and they also introduce contributor friction, you need separate accounts, it can be difficult to cross reference issues and PRs accross projects on different forges, users can't easily have a central feed of project they starred. On tangled you get to have the first part (freedom) while not having the second downside (unique account, cross-references work seamlessly, etc...) Give me reasons open source projects moved forges away from github, and I am pretty sure if tangled did exist when they did so it would fit more boxes of "why they left" than their target forge.
conradludgate 2mo ago
Spindles (CI) can use configurable engines, which includes nixery or microvm (which is similar to github actions). You're not forced into nixos I don't understand how it forces you to engage with Rust. It happens to be written in Rust but that shouldn't be a major consideration for a user

darccio 2mo ago

Just to clarify, when you say "self host issues/PRs" is it mostly "self host a knot"? I kind of expected something similar to what you can do for CI but I'm not able to find any docs regarding self hosting issues and PRs outside of Tangled itself.

LelouBil 2mo ago
Oh I meant that as part of tangled, you can "control" your issues and PRs because they are on ATProto and just like any ATProto record can be hosted on any PDS you like and still be interoperable. But after looking a bit more into it, they are still following the same model as Bluesky in that the author of an issue or comment or PR is the owner of the resource, and it lives on their PDS, but they are considering changing that (and I hope they do it soon) by having the record be created on the repo PDS (so the knot basically) and a pointer record on the user's PDS proving they are the author. ATProto has all that's required to do so, so I hope they do it soon, they are still in alpha after all but I find the interoperability very promising because you can have independent code hosting regardless of the opinions of forge X (which I think is the main reason why people move away from GitHub), but still be a part of an interoperable ecosystem that acts just like it is a single platform.
- darccio 2mo ago
  Indeed, this approach sounds like the way to go for a really independent ecosystem. Thanks for the clarification and the additional insight!

AgentME 2mo ago

Is non-self-hosting available for all of those things on Tangled? I don't want to run my own CI but I do want CI. I couldn't figure out if it was available last time I looked at Tangled.