4 ms·

I disagree. During an outage, you need your fridge and a few other essential items. A novice can plug into the back. The device tells you the load and whethe

by tonymet 2mo ago

I disagree. During an outage, you need your fridge and a few other essential items. A novice can plug into the back. The device tells you the load and whether you are exceeding. And you can test it at any time. For $600 you can get started without an electrician. it's the easiest, safest , most affordable and most reliable emergency solution ever available.

brk 2mo ago
For a relatively small battery like that, it's not going to last for days. In the typical outage where that battery would carry you, you can typically just leave the fridge closed and it will stay cold enough to prevent 99% of your stuff from spoiling. For most people (at least the US), it's not super easy to get at the plug in the back of the fridge anyway. Running HVAC is usually more of a concern, especially in winter or peak of summer, and those aren't device that you can hot-plug, and a small battery wouldn't help there anyway. I like the idea of whole-house batteries, but to really make it practical you're talking about thousands of dollars to the battery, install, etc. And you still don't have extensive run time, which is why I think you see most people still leaning towards permanent or portable generators way more than batteries.
- jerf 2mo ago
  People need to make decisions about how much resiliency they want. A medium-sized battery greatly enhances your options in an outage. A "solar generator" expands them yet farther. A whole-house generator somewhat farther. It's a lot easier and cheaper if you don't insist that your "resiliency" be "I live my life with no compromises whatsoever". But I would advocate that "zero resiliency" needs to be seen as being socially irresponsible. It is socially irresponsible that as soon as a service goes out that you are immediately in an emergency. You should not offload basic resiliency on to emergency services. Yes, if you take a direct hit from a tornado you're going to be leaning on emergency services, but the house a quarter mile from touchdown that may be out for three or four days needs to be able to deal with that. If nothing else, emergency supplies are a lot cheaper when it's not an emergency. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and especially so when perfect is so much more expensive and so much less relevant than the good.
  - munificent 2mo ago
    > It is socially irresponsible that as soon as a service goes out that you are immediately in an emergency. You should not offload basic resiliency on to emergency services. Sure, but that's not a remotely accurate description of a house without a backup battery or generator. I grew up in hurricane country and weathered many bad storms. Losing power does not put you immediately in an emergency. If you don't open the fridge much, your perishables will last a couple of days. Non-perishables will last much longer. Having a battery is the difference between "we can hang out and grill dinner for 5 days before we need to hit the road" and "we can hang out and grill dinner for 6 days before we need to hit the road". That distinction does not significantly change your strategy. Losing water is a much bigger emergency but is thankfully rarer and a backup battery won't help. Climate change will change this story somewhat in the South. If you are in a very hot climate, elderly, or have other health issues, then losing electricity and air conditioning in the summer can be an immediate emergency. Again, though, A/Cs consume so much electricity that a backup battery won't help you much. I think you're significantly overestimating the emergency value of a battery backup. Loss of electricity is rarely a rapid emergency. In cases where it is, a generator will at least give you as much power as you care to store fuel.
    - tonymet 2mo ago
      Generators don’t work that well. They need regular use and maintenance. Fuel storage is complicated (you will need 30+ gallons a day, or about 2 sedan tank’s worth. Connecting to your panel is expensive at least $2k+. They are smelly and noisy. And if it’s a real emergency, everyone will know you have one , and eventually come knocking. For $2k you can buy 3 Ankers and distribute around the house. With a propane camp stove you can cook. So the only utility failing during a power outage is your air conn. If it’s winter you can run a gas fireplace to keep warm. In my area we have power outages in the fall and winter wind storms due to trees falling. We need electricity for the fridge, fireplace, lighting , internet & devices. Lithium batteries work great. We get a few outages every season, usually for 2-6 hours . My neighbors have a generator for “emergencies” and don’t end up using it because it’s such a PITA. He has it for SHTF, but then he will have to consume the gas from his cars (and siphon it), which means making the decision between home comfort and evac. My point is that every solution covers a range of scenarios based on convenience, cost, resilience, versatility and more. There is no one size fits all . And now these lithium battery backups provide a broad amount of coverage that is safe and convenient for novices to run.
- tonymet 2mo ago
  sure we can quibble over convenience, but it's an outage, and you have to make it work. Look at the testing for the Anker Solix S2000 they are getting 2+ days of regular refrigerator use , which is what people care about primarily . What other option is easier or more affordable? A generator has to remain outside, so it needs panel connection ($$) , lots of extensions ( $, hassle), needs a generous fuel supply, and regular maintenance. And plug-in solar is becoming legal in the usa. within 3 years everyone will be running these little things, and you'll come around.
  - nancyminusone 2mo ago
    Exactly zero plug in solutions should be outputing power during an outage, if designed correctly, because they will be backfeed out of the house and into a grid. Most legislation directly addresses this. So you're back to getting a tranfer switch installed or lots of cords anyways.
    - tonymet 2mo ago
      The plug in technology available today accounts for that. Soon they will be available in all 50 states.
- apercu 2mo ago
  Fair, but I live in a wooded, semi-rural area and have had 7 outages this year, with one lasting over 8 hours.
isoprophlex 2mo ago
I really get where you're coming from, but I'm approaching this from the ~$1500, 5 kWh battery in TFA, which weights 50-60 kg, should be installed somewhere out of the way in a non-fire-hazardous manner. They're great, they can load-shift a meaningful chunk of daily consumption for most european homes don't just move these around to your freezer. They don't magically make you independent in case of grid failures, it's just not what they're for. And to get the average consumer to adopt these, the messaging about what they can and can't do should be crystal clear.

by tonymet 2mo ago

brk 2mo ago

For a relatively small battery like that, it's not going to last for days. In the typical outage where that battery would carry you, you can typically just leave the fridge closed and it will stay cold enough to prevent 99% of your stuff from spoiling. For most people (at least the US), it's not super easy to get at the plug in the back of the fridge anyway. Running HVAC is usually more of a concern, especially in winter or peak of summer, and those aren't device that you can hot-plug, and a small battery wouldn't help there anyway. I like the idea of whole-house batteries, but to really make it practical you're talking about thousands of dollars to the battery, install, etc. And you still don't have extensive run time, which is why I think you see most people still leaning towards permanent or portable generators way more than batteries.

jerf 2mo ago
People need to make decisions about how much resiliency they want. A medium-sized battery greatly enhances your options in an outage. A "solar generator" expands them yet farther. A whole-house generator somewhat farther. It's a lot easier and cheaper if you don't insist that your "resiliency" be "I live my life with no compromises whatsoever". But I would advocate that "zero resiliency" needs to be seen as being socially irresponsible. It is socially irresponsible that as soon as a service goes out that you are immediately in an emergency. You should not offload basic resiliency on to emergency services. Yes, if you take a direct hit from a tornado you're going to be leaning on emergency services, but the house a quarter mile from touchdown that may be out for three or four days needs to be able to deal with that. If nothing else, emergency supplies are a lot cheaper when it's not an emergency. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and especially so when perfect is so much more expensive and so much less relevant than the good.
- munificent 2mo ago
  > It is socially irresponsible that as soon as a service goes out that you are immediately in an emergency. You should not offload basic resiliency on to emergency services. Sure, but that's not a remotely accurate description of a house without a backup battery or generator. I grew up in hurricane country and weathered many bad storms. Losing power does not put you immediately in an emergency. If you don't open the fridge much, your perishables will last a couple of days. Non-perishables will last much longer. Having a battery is the difference between "we can hang out and grill dinner for 5 days before we need to hit the road" and "we can hang out and grill dinner for 6 days before we need to hit the road". That distinction does not significantly change your strategy. Losing water is a much bigger emergency but is thankfully rarer and a backup battery won't help. Climate change will change this story somewhat in the South. If you are in a very hot climate, elderly, or have other health issues, then losing electricity and air conditioning in the summer can be an immediate emergency. Again, though, A/Cs consume so much electricity that a backup battery won't help you much. I think you're significantly overestimating the emergency value of a battery backup. Loss of electricity is rarely a rapid emergency. In cases where it is, a generator will at least give you as much power as you care to store fuel.
  - tonymet 2mo ago
    Generators don’t work that well. They need regular use and maintenance. Fuel storage is complicated (you will need 30+ gallons a day, or about 2 sedan tank’s worth. Connecting to your panel is expensive at least $2k+. They are smelly and noisy. And if it’s a real emergency, everyone will know you have one , and eventually come knocking. For $2k you can buy 3 Ankers and distribute around the house. With a propane camp stove you can cook. So the only utility failing during a power outage is your air conn. If it’s winter you can run a gas fireplace to keep warm. In my area we have power outages in the fall and winter wind storms due to trees falling. We need electricity for the fridge, fireplace, lighting , internet & devices. Lithium batteries work great. We get a few outages every season, usually for 2-6 hours . My neighbors have a generator for “emergencies” and don’t end up using it because it’s such a PITA. He has it for SHTF, but then he will have to consume the gas from his cars (and siphon it), which means making the decision between home comfort and evac. My point is that every solution covers a range of scenarios based on convenience, cost, resilience, versatility and more. There is no one size fits all . And now these lithium battery backups provide a broad amount of coverage that is safe and convenient for novices to run.
tonymet 2mo ago
sure we can quibble over convenience, but it's an outage, and you have to make it work. Look at the testing for the Anker Solix S2000 they are getting 2+ days of regular refrigerator use , which is what people care about primarily . What other option is easier or more affordable? A generator has to remain outside, so it needs panel connection ($$) , lots of extensions ( $, hassle), needs a generous fuel supply, and regular maintenance. And plug-in solar is becoming legal in the usa. within 3 years everyone will be running these little things, and you'll come around.
- nancyminusone 2mo ago
  Exactly zero plug in solutions should be outputing power during an outage, if designed correctly, because they will be backfeed out of the house and into a grid. Most legislation directly addresses this. So you're back to getting a tranfer switch installed or lots of cords anyways.
  - tonymet 2mo ago
    The plug in technology available today accounts for that. Soon they will be available in all 50 states.
apercu 2mo ago
Fair, but I live in a wooded, semi-rural area and have had 7 outages this year, with one lasting over 8 hours.

isoprophlex 2mo ago

I really get where you're coming from, but I'm approaching this from the ~$1500, 5 kWh battery in TFA, which weights 50-60 kg, should be installed somewhere out of the way in a non-fire-hazardous manner. They're great, they can load-shift a meaningful chunk of daily consumption for most european homes don't just move these around to your freezer. They don't magically make you independent in case of grid failures, it's just not what they're for. And to get the average consumer to adopt these, the messaging about what they can and can't do should be crystal clear.