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"Local warlord seizes food relief intended for starving residents" "Local government distributes food relief to starving residents" They're the same picture,

by mapt 2mo ago

"Local warlord seizes food relief intended for starving residents" "Local government distributes food relief to starving residents" They're the same picture, it's just a judgement call on whether you see them as legitimate. Whether or not that's the case with Hamas, Israel & the US have ensured that Hamas's paramilitary wing specifically are the most legitimate of the local governing bodies, ranging from overturning Palestinian democracy when they attempted to turn into a political party 20 years ago and operating a occupation puppet government in the West Bank, to ensuring that grievances exist with regular provocations at holy sites, with embargoes, or power cuts, to literally assassinating not-explicitly-Hamas-aligned public figures who become popular in Gaza. The nice thing about food aid is that no matter who seizes it, it's food aid. Unless they're literally lighting it on fire, its entire political power is derived from it eventually being eaten by somebody, and a warlord plus 500 tons of peanuts does not add up to a 500 ton warlord. Better: In some forms of food aid, it rapidly spoils, so its utility to the local power structure is zero if it's hoarded.

ericmay 2mo ago
> The nice thing about food aid is that no matter who seizes it, it's food aid. Unless they're literally lighting it on fire, its entire political power is derived from it eventually being eaten by somebody, and a warlord plus 500 tons of peanuts does not add up to a 500 ton warlord. No? Not at all? They can just sell the aid which means they can sell it to anyone including folks who weren’t the intended recipients, they can hoard it and not give it away, they can let it go bad rather than give it away, they can use it to recruit soldiers to repress other people so they don’t starve, they can use it to buy slaves, there are plenty of ways in which the food aid doesn’t make it to the people who need it. There’s no moral justification or anything to say here to help you sleep at night. When a terrorist group, local warlords, whomever steal the aid it’s just bad. Trickle down economics doesn’t work.
- mapt 2mo ago
  I am describing a region under broad famine. You are describing problems with government cheese, with directing food to means-tested registered impoverished people who live alongside the wealthy & fat. "Folks who weren't the intended recipients" - the residents of the region were the intended recipients. Literally the first people who make it to the truck and (hopefully) form a line, is how it's usually done. What's the economic or political benefit to spoilage? The local power structure is already a local power structure. If your intention is that you MUST disrupt the local power structure and you're willing to exacerbate the famine to ensure that, then sure, don't distribute food aid.
  - ericmay 2mo ago
    > You are describing problems with government cheese, with directing food to means-tested registered impoverished people who live alongside the wealthy & fat. No I'm not. Your characterization is wrong too. Poor people tend to be more overweight than the wealthy and also receive more food aid. > I am describing a region under broad famine. Sure whatever, but describe how the rest of the world (not the US) should solve the broad famine you've highlighted. > What's the economic or political benefit to spoilage? If you're a local warlord it would be control or to ensure certain groups or enclaves are dead or weakened. Withholding food or other resources is a strategy as hold as civilization. > If your intention is that you MUST disrupt the local power structure and you're willing to exacerbate the famine to ensure that, then sure, don't distribute food aid. If giving food aid just entrenches the local power structure then it just turns into a new tax of sorts that has to be paid basically forever. I stand in strong support of the countries (not the US) who would like to do this. Go for it.
    - mapt 2mo ago
      Is the local power structure not allowed to charge taxes? Would we rather bomb the whole place into rubble than allow them to feed the hungry? Yes. The answer is yes. See also: Welfare queens, a cartoon specter of a moral hazard, the opposition to which is so important we must simply end welfare.
      - ericmay 2mo ago
        > Is the local power structure not allowed to charge taxes? Yes the local power structure is allowed to charge taxes, or taxes by other means. > Would we rather bomb the whole place into rubble than allow them to feed the hungry? Maybe we just don't do either and decide to do other things?

by mapt 2mo ago

ericmay 2mo ago

> The nice thing about food aid is that no matter who seizes it, it's food aid. Unless they're literally lighting it on fire, its entire political power is derived from it eventually being eaten by somebody, and a warlord plus 500 tons of peanuts does not add up to a 500 ton warlord. No? Not at all? They can just sell the aid which means they can sell it to anyone including folks who weren’t the intended recipients, they can hoard it and not give it away, they can let it go bad rather than give it away, they can use it to recruit soldiers to repress other people so they don’t starve, they can use it to buy slaves, there are plenty of ways in which the food aid doesn’t make it to the people who need it. There’s no moral justification or anything to say here to help you sleep at night. When a terrorist group, local warlords, whomever steal the aid it’s just bad. Trickle down economics doesn’t work.

mapt 2mo ago
I am describing a region under broad famine. You are describing problems with government cheese, with directing food to means-tested registered impoverished people who live alongside the wealthy & fat. "Folks who weren't the intended recipients" - the residents of the region were the intended recipients. Literally the first people who make it to the truck and (hopefully) form a line, is how it's usually done. What's the economic or political benefit to spoilage? The local power structure is already a local power structure. If your intention is that you MUST disrupt the local power structure and you're willing to exacerbate the famine to ensure that, then sure, don't distribute food aid.
- ericmay 2mo ago
  > You are describing problems with government cheese, with directing food to means-tested registered impoverished people who live alongside the wealthy & fat. No I'm not. Your characterization is wrong too. Poor people tend to be more overweight than the wealthy and also receive more food aid. > I am describing a region under broad famine. Sure whatever, but describe how the rest of the world (not the US) should solve the broad famine you've highlighted. > What's the economic or political benefit to spoilage? If you're a local warlord it would be control or to ensure certain groups or enclaves are dead or weakened. Withholding food or other resources is a strategy as hold as civilization. > If your intention is that you MUST disrupt the local power structure and you're willing to exacerbate the famine to ensure that, then sure, don't distribute food aid. If giving food aid just entrenches the local power structure then it just turns into a new tax of sorts that has to be paid basically forever. I stand in strong support of the countries (not the US) who would like to do this. Go for it.
  - mapt 2mo ago
    Is the local power structure not allowed to charge taxes? Would we rather bomb the whole place into rubble than allow them to feed the hungry? Yes. The answer is yes. See also: Welfare queens, a cartoon specter of a moral hazard, the opposition to which is so important we must simply end welfare.
    - ericmay 2mo ago
      > Is the local power structure not allowed to charge taxes? Yes the local power structure is allowed to charge taxes, or taxes by other means. > Would we rather bomb the whole place into rubble than allow them to feed the hungry? Maybe we just don't do either and decide to do other things?