4 ms·

I have broadly good feelings about Cloudflare but this warrants a response.

hecturchi 2mo ago
Because if something is free, you are the product.
anon7000 2mo ago
Because paying business customers are a lot more sensitive to this type of change rolling out. They are particular about how they want their shit hosted. Which is totally fair. People on the free tier probably a lot more interested in free benefits and care less about a little change in their hosting.
- cryptonym 2mo ago
  Cloudflare needs the data. Useful to validate the impact of changes, build marketing content... Using the free tier for this is fair, they let you opt out, they give you a dashboard. If someone is mad, maybe they should pay or use a different architecture.
  - Kevcmk 2mo ago
    Shill
    - cryptonym 2mo ago
      I'm not a Cloudflare customer and don't intend to actually use their services. To be transparent I got a free account for few experiments. I'm not working for them in any way. When it's free you know you are being used, collecting data is the game.
  - whilenot-dev 2mo ago
    > this is fair, they let you opt out, they give you a dashboard So they give you something else you didn't ask for and therefor it's "fair"? I think it's pretty dubious to extend services with such data collecting features without informing affected users first, and making it clear how to opt-out before its deployment. A blog post won't do, no.
    - cryptonym 2mo ago
      You are not paying and it's a business. They need to get something from this deal and they'll maximize it: marketing, data, upselling... Collecting RUM and giving you the opportunity to turn it off is not that bad for a free service. Makes me wonder if their stuff is GDPR-compliant without consent. If not, then ok, maybe that's bad to turn it on by default.
      - whilenot-dev 2mo ago
        Even on free tiers there are Terms of Use you'll need to agree to as a user of their services. Like I said, it's dubious to alter a service and collect data without informing the user first, free tier or not. There's a reason I got emails from LinkedIn regarding its new AI training purposes, and they made it clear how to opt-out and provided a deadline. I'm on a free tier there as well. So I'd question the legality of this even before any discussions about GDPR enter the picture.
        cryptonym 2mo ago
        They are not collecting and using your personal data. To me (IANAL), it looks really different from LinkedIn. GDPR is about legality and covers the LinkedIn case you mention.
        whilenot-dev 2mo ago
        > They are not collecting and using your personal data. Do you see how GDPR doesn't apply, then? ...you're contradicting yourself. I'd still question the legality of the data collection by altering the offered service without properly informing the affected users. Whether GDPR applies doesn't matter, and whether it's a free tier service doesn't matter either. You're a consumer of Cloudflare, so any consumer rights apply.
        cryptonym 2mo ago
        GDPR very much applies. As a website owner, you are responsible towards your users for data collection (your architectural choices, your responsibility). This was my concern on GDPR. Sibling comment says data collection is disabled in EU.
  - jnovek 2mo ago
    I don’t think anyone in these comments expects to get something for nothing, it’s that MITMing your payload is something that feels like a betrayal of trust unless you are crystal clear that you’re doing it. Considering how many people in these comments are surprised by this, it seems like Cloudflare hasn’t been crystal clear.

Because if something is free, you are the product.

Because paying business customers are a lot more sensitive to this type of change rolling out. They are particular about how they want their shit hosted. Which is totally fair. People on the free tier probably a lot more interested in free benefits and care less about a little change in their hosting.

cryptonym 2mo ago
Cloudflare needs the data. Useful to validate the impact of changes, build marketing content... Using the free tier for this is fair, they let you opt out, they give you a dashboard. If someone is mad, maybe they should pay or use a different architecture.
- Kevcmk 2mo ago
  Shill
  - cryptonym 2mo ago
    I'm not a Cloudflare customer and don't intend to actually use their services. To be transparent I got a free account for few experiments. I'm not working for them in any way. When it's free you know you are being used, collecting data is the game.
- whilenot-dev 2mo ago
  > this is fair, they let you opt out, they give you a dashboard So they give you something else you didn't ask for and therefor it's "fair"? I think it's pretty dubious to extend services with such data collecting features without informing affected users first, and making it clear how to opt-out before its deployment. A blog post won't do, no.
  - cryptonym 2mo ago
    You are not paying and it's a business. They need to get something from this deal and they'll maximize it: marketing, data, upselling... Collecting RUM and giving you the opportunity to turn it off is not that bad for a free service. Makes me wonder if their stuff is GDPR-compliant without consent. If not, then ok, maybe that's bad to turn it on by default.
    - whilenot-dev 2mo ago
      Even on free tiers there are Terms of Use you'll need to agree to as a user of their services. Like I said, it's dubious to alter a service and collect data without informing the user first, free tier or not. There's a reason I got emails from LinkedIn regarding its new AI training purposes, and they made it clear how to opt-out and provided a deadline. I'm on a free tier there as well. So I'd question the legality of this even before any discussions about GDPR enter the picture.
      - cryptonym 2mo ago
        They are not collecting and using your personal data. To me (IANAL), it looks really different from LinkedIn. GDPR is about legality and covers the LinkedIn case you mention.
        whilenot-dev 2mo ago
        > They are not collecting and using your personal data. Do you see how GDPR doesn't apply, then? ...you're contradicting yourself. I'd still question the legality of the data collection by altering the offered service without properly informing the affected users. Whether GDPR applies doesn't matter, and whether it's a free tier service doesn't matter either. You're a consumer of Cloudflare, so any consumer rights apply.
        cryptonym 2mo ago
        GDPR very much applies. As a website owner, you are responsible towards your users for data collection (your architectural choices, your responsibility). This was my concern on GDPR. Sibling comment says data collection is disabled in EU.
- jnovek 2mo ago
  I don’t think anyone in these comments expects to get something for nothing, it’s that MITMing your payload is something that feels like a betrayal of trust unless you are crystal clear that you’re doing it. Considering how many people in these comments are surprised by this, it seems like Cloudflare hasn’t been crystal clear.