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Cloudflare sets up a reverse proxy as part of their core offering, so by default they can MITM your proxy. The “orange cloud” by a DNS record means it points to

Cloudflare sets up a reverse proxy as part of their core offering, so by default they can MITM your proxy. The “orange cloud” by a DNS record means it points to their proxy instead of your server.

vickychijwani 2mo ago
What a shame. I wasn’t expecting these dark patterns from Cloudflare at all.
- hackernud3s 2mo ago
  That's how you get DDOS protection / edge delivery, so it's not a dark pattern. I imagine it's the main reason why people would DNS through them in the first place.
  - vickychijwani 2mo ago
    An “orange cloud” with no other indication to represent a feature that is enabled-by-default (with implicitly enabled analytics) sounds like quite the dark pattern. The UI makes the DNS record seem to point to A (your entry) but actually points to B (Cloudflare). This isn’t an oversight, it’s an attempt to obfuscate. Even if the choice to enable it by default makes sense for Cloudflare’s userbase, the implications are hidden and non-obvious.
    - mjmas 2mo ago
      The options are actually labelled as 'Proxied' or 'DNS Only', so that is actually quite clear.
    - furyofantares 2mo ago
      It's essentially the entire reason to use Cloudflare. As sibling mentions it is indeed labeled and not just some icon. People just refer to the orange cloud UI for it for convenience and because it makes it easy to spot whether you have it on or not. But regarding the icon, the icon is their company logo, it really is the primary feature. It's also not like you have to go find it in settings to turn it off after adding DNS record, it's part of the form when you add the record (default on, yes), and it's prominent when viewing the record.
      - tjoff 2mo ago
        I don't buy that, there is no reason for 99.9999% of sites to use cloudflare. The "reason" to use cloudflare is hype.
        furyofantares 2mo ago
        It's the reason for its existence and the reason people are choosing it. If they are making a mistake, hoodwinked by hype, that's totally unrelated to the point being discussed. I think you've just seized the opportunity to post your disdain for them without regard to the actual topic being discussed.
        tjoff 2mo ago
        Truly doubt that. Sure, but if they are making a mistake due to dark patterns then it is another thing. This thread does indicate the latter.
        hackernud3s 2mo ago
        You don't think there's value in hiding origin ip from hackers? lol.
        tjoff 2mo ago
        If you are self-hosting, sure. Otherwise, mostly no.
- kazinator 2mo ago
  I would say that Cloudfare having customers who don't know exactly what they are getting (into) is actually a Cloudfare problem they should take responsibility for.
  - alt227 2mo ago
    I would say its up to the user to research what they are using.
- EtienneK 2mo ago
  That’s not a dark pattern. That’s one of the core reasons to use Cloudflare.
  - 6031769 2mo ago
    And of course by extension it is also one of the core reasons not to use Cloudflare.

vickychijwani 2mo ago

What a shame. I wasn’t expecting these dark patterns from Cloudflare at all.

hackernud3s 2mo ago
That's how you get DDOS protection / edge delivery, so it's not a dark pattern. I imagine it's the main reason why people would DNS through them in the first place.
- vickychijwani 2mo ago
  An “orange cloud” with no other indication to represent a feature that is enabled-by-default (with implicitly enabled analytics) sounds like quite the dark pattern. The UI makes the DNS record seem to point to A (your entry) but actually points to B (Cloudflare). This isn’t an oversight, it’s an attempt to obfuscate. Even if the choice to enable it by default makes sense for Cloudflare’s userbase, the implications are hidden and non-obvious.
  - mjmas 2mo ago
    The options are actually labelled as 'Proxied' or 'DNS Only', so that is actually quite clear.
  - furyofantares 2mo ago
    It's essentially the entire reason to use Cloudflare. As sibling mentions it is indeed labeled and not just some icon. People just refer to the orange cloud UI for it for convenience and because it makes it easy to spot whether you have it on or not. But regarding the icon, the icon is their company logo, it really is the primary feature. It's also not like you have to go find it in settings to turn it off after adding DNS record, it's part of the form when you add the record (default on, yes), and it's prominent when viewing the record.
    - tjoff 2mo ago
      I don't buy that, there is no reason for 99.9999% of sites to use cloudflare. The "reason" to use cloudflare is hype.
      - furyofantares 2mo ago
        It's the reason for its existence and the reason people are choosing it. If they are making a mistake, hoodwinked by hype, that's totally unrelated to the point being discussed. I think you've just seized the opportunity to post your disdain for them without regard to the actual topic being discussed.
        tjoff 2mo ago
        Truly doubt that. Sure, but if they are making a mistake due to dark patterns then it is another thing. This thread does indicate the latter.
      - hackernud3s 2mo ago
        You don't think there's value in hiding origin ip from hackers? lol.
        tjoff 2mo ago
        If you are self-hosting, sure. Otherwise, mostly no.
kazinator 2mo ago
I would say that Cloudfare having customers who don't know exactly what they are getting (into) is actually a Cloudfare problem they should take responsibility for.
- alt227 2mo ago
  I would say its up to the user to research what they are using.
EtienneK 2mo ago
That’s not a dark pattern. That’s one of the core reasons to use Cloudflare.
- 6031769 2mo ago
  And of course by extension it is also one of the core reasons not to use Cloudflare.