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There will always be dogma associated with the belief that in-person interaction is more valuable than remote interaction, much like the same dogma people some

There will always be dogma associated with the belief that in-person interaction is more valuable than remote interaction, much like the same dogma people some people have about preferring physical books to e-book readers. People aren't able to truly quantify the benefit of working on-site, but they will flail their hands vigorously in an attempt to qualify it. On the other hand, it's very easy to quantify the benefit of remote workers. You increase your potential labor force if you remove geographic restrictions, which cuts costs and improves productivity. I personally was able to quantify the benefit of working remotely in terms of distractions. I work remotely on a medium sized team and I occasionally travel to the headquarters to work on-site. My productivity always drops when I'm on-site because of the constant interruptions and meetings, both initiated by others and myself.

macavity23 14y ago
It is hard to quantify, but having done the remote working thing for a while myself, there is a lot of communication that one misses. Skype, Facetime, G+ Hangouts etc all help, but there is still a significant qualitative difference to being in the same physical room as a bunch of smart people - both in terms of coming up with better ideas and solutions, and of avoiding miscommunication and misunderstandings. No doubt as our comms tech gets better that gap will decrease (it's a lot narrower than ten years ago), but it's definitely there.
- calinet6 14y ago
  You have to resolve to work at communicating at or approaching the level you would in a real office. It takes more effort, but I think it can be effectively balanced against the other advantages of working remotely.
  - jfb 14y ago
    Fundamentally, all the remote technologies in the world put together don't even approach the bandwidth of in-person communication. You're right, it can work -- but you have to be constantly vigilant.
    - calinet6 14y ago
      Yep, absolutely. We're experimenting with Minecraft. Improvements in culture and productivity are yet to be analyzed...
  - silverbax88 14y ago
    I've worked for companies that did remote well and I've worked for many that did remote poorly. It really has to be an understanding of how people communicate. Theoretically, it should not matter if I'm one desk away from someone or 1,000 miles away, since most people sit at their desks or in their office and communicate over IM or email. But, oh, it does matter. Some companies are just NOT set up to handle remote work, even if they have the technology to do so.
  - frossie 14y ago
    It takes more effort, but I think it can be effectively balanced against the other advantages of working remotely. Yes, that is the trade-off the remote worker makes. However it is important to understand that the folks on the employer's side also have to make that extra effort to manage communication effectively with remote workers, and they don't get the advantages of working remotely. That is not to say that it should never be done (doing a project with remote workers is indeed advantageous in certain scenarios), but the balance of the advantages in remote working (barring financial overhead issues like providing an office) are with the worker. So one should not be surprised that companies want you to relocate before they know about you. Now for certain individuals, it is to the benefit of the company to support the remote working agreement because of the value they get from working with that particular individual. Which is why there is a huge selection effect when people blog "hey, I telecommute and don't lack in work". It's similar to a famous actor saying "hey, I don't do anything special and I don't lack in dates". The people who couldn't find work that way? They relocated and aren't blogging about remote working. But absolutely - if you can make it work for yourself, go for it - no argument that it improves your quality of life.
- rudasn 14y ago
  > there is a lot of communication that one misses. That's not necessarily a bad thing considering that most communication within most office environments, like it or not, is not "productive communication". When you have many people together in the same environment with a low communication cost it is inevitable that interactions will not always be productive (in the sense, "do we really need to talk about this, right now?"). To some extend the notion of community and belonging is lost when working remotely - as someone else mentioned, is like reading a book vs an e-book. However, if you manage to get past the feeling of not "being real" or not "feeling it" you realise that the function (working) is quite distinct from the form (sharing an office). Sometimes when I talk with my workmates over skype and listen about time lost on discussions over office politics and needless meetings I feel great, because I'm glad I missing that kind of communication. At the same time, it is difficult to understand the context of a discussion without each party knowing the environment within which the other party is communicating from. From my experience the downsides of working remotely are far less than the upsides. In addition to that, most downsides can be easily overcome (company or team-wide retreats, better culture management, etc). The upsides on the other hand, for both parties, are unique in working remotely and cannot be reproduced or copied whilst working on location. Personally, I enjoy my work the most when I work in two markets: education and music. The country I live in has exactly zero potential for me in those two markets with the skills I have. So working remotely is my only viable option (aside from migrating). Likewise, my employer has a highly skilled individual, who cares deeply about the product he's building, working for him - the type of individual he wasn't able to find locally. It really is a win-win situation but at the same time, like everything else in life, you win some you lose some.
  - bennyg 14y ago
    Don't undervalue the effect of "unproductive" communication. It's usually what drives creativity.
    - mstefanko 14y ago
      I agree, there is definitely something to be said for "unproductive" communication. But I would change that to: It can potentially drive creativity. I've been in plenty of office environments where it was far more just a distraction.
- aantix 14y ago
  Have you tried a remote agile tool like Sococo? The "instant on" communication being able to "walk up" to anyone in the virtual office, share your screen looks intriguing. I don't work for them or even subscribe to the service. I've just seen enough people outwardly complain about the differences between being remote and on-site and wondered why this tool doesn't get mentioned in the conversation more.. Maybe it just doesn't work.. http://agilescout.com/an-agile-virtual-office-beam-me-up-brody-sococo-virtual-collaboration/ http://agilescout.com/an-agile-virtual-office-beam-me-up-bro...
netcan 14y ago
When I got my kobo I found that my reading habits changed. I enjoyed long fiction more. Medium-lite long reading. I know have an ipad and I found that my reading habits again. I'm reading medium-short non fiction. Stuff I can dip in and out of. Yesterday it was 4 Hour Body, Sun Tze & The Communist Manifesto. If I'm reading for an hour I will read a dozen or two pages from 3-4 different things. Medium changes things. Remote employment has pros and cons (for both parties) but it is not the same thing. It's harder (or at least different) to develop employees, build a culture, produce ideas from multiple minds.
mstefanko 14y ago
I think the cutting costs and distractions are extremely important variables when even thinking about trying to quantify the benefit of remote workers. But of course your productivity drops when you're in the office when you're not usually. People are taking advantage of one of the few times you're on-site, increased distractions already. The environment you're working in on-site is no longer what you're used to working in. Meaning you don't put up with distractions as well as you would if you worked there every day. And your body doesn't really go into 'work-mode'. It goes the same way for someone who works in the office every day then decides to work at home. When I've had a dedicated office space in my home and worked there for an extended time, I always feel like I missed out on some social aspects that I needed from the office environment, including both productive and unproductive communication, but my productivity went up. But now that I've been working daily in an office, and I do not have a dedicated space at home, when I do end up working from home, i'm far more distracted. I think it's easy to look at either side and flail your hands attempting to qualify as well as justify what you're doing. But it's not that cut and dry. In your experience working from home may make perfect sense, but I still don't think it's easy to quantify the benefit of remote workers. For a lot of people working remotely is distracting in a different way, and you end up giving up a lot of essential in-office interactions, sometimes without ever realizing it.
- marknutter 14y ago
  I'll tell you why working from home makes sense for me, and it doesn't involve hand-waving: without it being an option, I would simply make less money. I am not willing to move to work for a company, so every company that allows me to remotely contract increases my revenues. This goes both ways, too. Without being open to remote workers, these companies would have a far smaller talent pool to draw from, which would mean they will inevitably get worse talent at a higher cost.
  - mstefanko 14y ago
    I think you make a lot of very valid points, and honestly I hope that companies continue to see the benefits of remotely contracting work as well as just telecommuting in general. I'm definitely not arguing with the benefits. Just offering minor support for the value of in-house talent as well. For me personally, I've worked in offices on the east coast, then moved to the bay area to follow 'that dream'. Offices on the east coast offered me little in the form of tech culture or inspiration, aside from some interpersonal relationships. Here in the bay area I found a lot of things to be worse than I idealized in my mind before moving, but one thing that has been very apparent is the culture and tech community. Even just the conversations I hear outside, on my commute to work, let alone the conversations i'm involved in at work are just so different than what I was used to. Feel like for the first time in a long time, i'm no longer just doing a job, but i'm growing, i'm getting better, i'm learning, and I'm constantly motivated. I worked for a number of years thinking the remote lifestyle was a dream come true, and for a lot of people it is. I think your point about the limited local talent pool at least for the majority of places is extremely accurate, and something that needs to be considered. But just in my little bubble, I have to say that going to the office, even despite the increase in interruptions and distractions, it's been extremely favorable for my career as well as the quality of work that i'm able to give back to the community and my job. And moving across the country, despite the hardships I faced in the few month transition, a year later it ended up being one of the best decisions of my life.

macavity23 14y ago

It is hard to quantify, but having done the remote working thing for a while myself, there is a lot of communication that one misses. Skype, Facetime, G+ Hangouts etc all help, but there is still a significant qualitative difference to being in the same physical room as a bunch of smart people - both in terms of coming up with better ideas and solutions, and of avoiding miscommunication and misunderstandings. No doubt as our comms tech gets better that gap will decrease (it's a lot narrower than ten years ago), but it's definitely there.

calinet6 14y ago
You have to resolve to work at communicating at or approaching the level you would in a real office. It takes more effort, but I think it can be effectively balanced against the other advantages of working remotely.
- jfb 14y ago
  Fundamentally, all the remote technologies in the world put together don't even approach the bandwidth of in-person communication. You're right, it can work -- but you have to be constantly vigilant.
  - calinet6 14y ago
    Yep, absolutely. We're experimenting with Minecraft. Improvements in culture and productivity are yet to be analyzed...
- silverbax88 14y ago
  I've worked for companies that did remote well and I've worked for many that did remote poorly. It really has to be an understanding of how people communicate. Theoretically, it should not matter if I'm one desk away from someone or 1,000 miles away, since most people sit at their desks or in their office and communicate over IM or email. But, oh, it does matter. Some companies are just NOT set up to handle remote work, even if they have the technology to do so.
- frossie 14y ago
  It takes more effort, but I think it can be effectively balanced against the other advantages of working remotely. Yes, that is the trade-off the remote worker makes. However it is important to understand that the folks on the employer's side also have to make that extra effort to manage communication effectively with remote workers, and they don't get the advantages of working remotely. That is not to say that it should never be done (doing a project with remote workers is indeed advantageous in certain scenarios), but the balance of the advantages in remote working (barring financial overhead issues like providing an office) are with the worker. So one should not be surprised that companies want you to relocate before they know about you. Now for certain individuals, it is to the benefit of the company to support the remote working agreement because of the value they get from working with that particular individual. Which is why there is a huge selection effect when people blog "hey, I telecommute and don't lack in work". It's similar to a famous actor saying "hey, I don't do anything special and I don't lack in dates". The people who couldn't find work that way? They relocated and aren't blogging about remote working. But absolutely - if you can make it work for yourself, go for it - no argument that it improves your quality of life.
rudasn 14y ago
> there is a lot of communication that one misses. That's not necessarily a bad thing considering that most communication within most office environments, like it or not, is not "productive communication". When you have many people together in the same environment with a low communication cost it is inevitable that interactions will not always be productive (in the sense, "do we really need to talk about this, right now?"). To some extend the notion of community and belonging is lost when working remotely - as someone else mentioned, is like reading a book vs an e-book. However, if you manage to get past the feeling of not "being real" or not "feeling it" you realise that the function (working) is quite distinct from the form (sharing an office). Sometimes when I talk with my workmates over skype and listen about time lost on discussions over office politics and needless meetings I feel great, because I'm glad I missing that kind of communication. At the same time, it is difficult to understand the context of a discussion without each party knowing the environment within which the other party is communicating from. From my experience the downsides of working remotely are far less than the upsides. In addition to that, most downsides can be easily overcome (company or team-wide retreats, better culture management, etc). The upsides on the other hand, for both parties, are unique in working remotely and cannot be reproduced or copied whilst working on location. Personally, I enjoy my work the most when I work in two markets: education and music. The country I live in has exactly zero potential for me in those two markets with the skills I have. So working remotely is my only viable option (aside from migrating). Likewise, my employer has a highly skilled individual, who cares deeply about the product he's building, working for him - the type of individual he wasn't able to find locally. It really is a win-win situation but at the same time, like everything else in life, you win some you lose some.
- bennyg 14y ago
  Don't undervalue the effect of "unproductive" communication. It's usually what drives creativity.
  - mstefanko 14y ago
    I agree, there is definitely something to be said for "unproductive" communication. But I would change that to: It can potentially drive creativity. I've been in plenty of office environments where it was far more just a distraction.
aantix 14y ago
Have you tried a remote agile tool like Sococo? The "instant on" communication being able to "walk up" to anyone in the virtual office, share your screen looks intriguing. I don't work for them or even subscribe to the service. I've just seen enough people outwardly complain about the differences between being remote and on-site and wondered why this tool doesn't get mentioned in the conversation more.. Maybe it just doesn't work.. http://agilescout.com/an-agile-virtual-office-beam-me-up-brody-sococo-virtual-collaboration/ http://agilescout.com/an-agile-virtual-office-beam-me-up-bro...

netcan 14y ago

When I got my kobo I found that my reading habits changed. I enjoyed long fiction more. Medium-lite long reading. I know have an ipad and I found that my reading habits again. I'm reading medium-short non fiction. Stuff I can dip in and out of. Yesterday it was 4 Hour Body, Sun Tze & The Communist Manifesto. If I'm reading for an hour I will read a dozen or two pages from 3-4 different things. Medium changes things. Remote employment has pros and cons (for both parties) but it is not the same thing. It's harder (or at least different) to develop employees, build a culture, produce ideas from multiple minds.

mstefanko 14y ago

I think the cutting costs and distractions are extremely important variables when even thinking about trying to quantify the benefit of remote workers. But of course your productivity drops when you're in the office when you're not usually. People are taking advantage of one of the few times you're on-site, increased distractions already. The environment you're working in on-site is no longer what you're used to working in. Meaning you don't put up with distractions as well as you would if you worked there every day. And your body doesn't really go into 'work-mode'. It goes the same way for someone who works in the office every day then decides to work at home. When I've had a dedicated office space in my home and worked there for an extended time, I always feel like I missed out on some social aspects that I needed from the office environment, including both productive and unproductive communication, but my productivity went up. But now that I've been working daily in an office, and I do not have a dedicated space at home, when I do end up working from home, i'm far more distracted. I think it's easy to look at either side and flail your hands attempting to qualify as well as justify what you're doing. But it's not that cut and dry. In your experience working from home may make perfect sense, but I still don't think it's easy to quantify the benefit of remote workers. For a lot of people working remotely is distracting in a different way, and you end up giving up a lot of essential in-office interactions, sometimes without ever realizing it.

marknutter 14y ago
I'll tell you why working from home makes sense for me, and it doesn't involve hand-waving: without it being an option, I would simply make less money. I am not willing to move to work for a company, so every company that allows me to remotely contract increases my revenues. This goes both ways, too. Without being open to remote workers, these companies would have a far smaller talent pool to draw from, which would mean they will inevitably get worse talent at a higher cost.
- mstefanko 14y ago
  I think you make a lot of very valid points, and honestly I hope that companies continue to see the benefits of remotely contracting work as well as just telecommuting in general. I'm definitely not arguing with the benefits. Just offering minor support for the value of in-house talent as well. For me personally, I've worked in offices on the east coast, then moved to the bay area to follow 'that dream'. Offices on the east coast offered me little in the form of tech culture or inspiration, aside from some interpersonal relationships. Here in the bay area I found a lot of things to be worse than I idealized in my mind before moving, but one thing that has been very apparent is the culture and tech community. Even just the conversations I hear outside, on my commute to work, let alone the conversations i'm involved in at work are just so different than what I was used to. Feel like for the first time in a long time, i'm no longer just doing a job, but i'm growing, i'm getting better, i'm learning, and I'm constantly motivated. I worked for a number of years thinking the remote lifestyle was a dream come true, and for a lot of people it is. I think your point about the limited local talent pool at least for the majority of places is extremely accurate, and something that needs to be considered. But just in my little bubble, I have to say that going to the office, even despite the increase in interruptions and distractions, it's been extremely favorable for my career as well as the quality of work that i'm able to give back to the community and my job. And moving across the country, despite the hardships I faced in the few month transition, a year later it ended up being one of the best decisions of my life.