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Mars Astronauts Likely to Witness 1 Megaton Asteroid Impacts

30 points by Libertatea 14y ago

lucaspiller 14y ago
What does this actually mean? Obviously it is pretty obvious if it lands on top of you, but if there is a 1 megaton impact of a meteorite landing 10 miles away what are the consequences? Given the lower gravity and atmospheric pressure would you be basically sand blasted with remnants?
- arethuza 14y ago
  Using some online calculators for the effects of nuclear weapons, I suspect the answer would be that you'd be reasonably safe at 16km: http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/ABC_Weapons/Nuke_Effects_Calculator.htm http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/ABC_Weapons/Nuke_Effects_C... http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html I don't know if a meteor impact would produce the same prompt radiation as a H-bomb, but the much less dense Martian atmosphere might negate that.
  - tgflynn 14y ago
    Most of the ionizing radiation from an H bomb is produced by nuclear fusion or from fission from the trigger and decay products. An asteroid impact wouldn't produce any of that. The only ionizing radiation it might produce are some x-rays from the fireball plasma (but I'm not sure the plasma would even be hot enough for that). The blast and thermal effects would presumably be comparable, however, so at 16 km you'd definitely notice (and might be in a very uncomfortable situation).
troels 14y ago
Their model suggests that Tunguska-type events of around 10 megatons should occur roughly once a century and smaller 1 megaton events once every 15 years. If the rate is 1/15 years on Earth, why haven't I witnessed any yet? I suspect the answer is that Earth is rather large. Mars may not be quite as big, but it's still quite implausible that our Mars visitors should happen to be at just the wrong place at the wrong time, even with a 5-times increase in risk.
- tgflynn 14y ago
  It seems like if a 1 megaton impact were occurring on Earth every 15 years people would have noticed more than seems to be the case. You would expect more than one such event per century to occur on land and I think the vast majority of the Earth's land is populated, at least sparsely. Also for the past 50 years or so governments have been very interested in tracking large explosions so even such events occurring over water should have been detected and, I would think, mentioned in the media.
  - Gravityloss 14y ago
    Yes. This doesn't pass the smell test. I first suspected the article produces a garbled version of the research, but the abstract says the same too: http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.3273 http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.3273 " In particular, for energies of one megaton or larger we find near one impact every three years for Mars, an interesting and concerning result for future Mars explorations. The corresponding calculations for our planet give a probability of one impact per 15 years"
    - tomrod 14y ago
      Doesn't pass my smell test either. I suspect perhaps there are some jiggered parameters in the model.
    - debacle 14y ago
      Perhaps the "1 megaton" nomer is for what encounters our atmosphere, not necessarily what impacts our surface.
      - troels 14y ago
        That might be the case, but then it's not really something to be worried about, is it? I mean, then they're basically saying that astronauts on Mars will see shooting stars a bit more often than on Earth.
        14y ago
mkelley 14y ago
Ok so what is that in Hiroshimas?
- nakedrobot2 14y ago
  According to 10 seconds googling, little boy and fat man were both somewhere around 20 KILOtons.
- tgflynn 14y ago
  About 50X.
aptwebapps 14y ago
When they say one megaton, do they mean total energy released during entry or something? There's no way we're having the equivalent of a one megaton nuke (minus the fallout) on the surface every fifteen years ... Or are we just in a dry patch? Edit: The actual paper says 'impact' so I don't know what to think here.
andyjohnson0 14y ago
First sentence: "Asteroid impacts are among the most feared of natural catastrophes." Maybe I'm being picky, but I don't think that this is actually true.
- pavel_lishin 14y ago
  The word "among" makes it a pretty subjective thing.
jere 14y ago
>Here’s the interesting part: these guys calcaulte that Mars experiences a 1 megaton event every three years. We've had orbiting satellites around Mars for over a decade. Wouldn't they be capable of seeing such an impact?
- InclinedPlane 14y ago
  We've had launch and nuclear explosion detection satellites around the Earth for decades and we haven't detected anything like 1 megaton impact event every 15 years.
danielweber 14y ago
Nevertheless, these kind of predictions require further study. There's the money quote. Quite literally. There are all sorts of people who see the path to Mars littered with bags of money and are quite happy to insert themselves into the path.

30 points by Libertatea 14y ago

What does this actually mean? Obviously it is pretty obvious if it lands on top of you, but if there is a 1 megaton impact of a meteorite landing 10 miles away what are the consequences? Given the lower gravity and atmospheric pressure would you be basically sand blasted with remnants?

arethuza 14y ago
Using some online calculators for the effects of nuclear weapons, I suspect the answer would be that you'd be reasonably safe at 16km: http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/ABC_Weapons/Nuke_Effects_Calculator.htm http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/ABC_Weapons/Nuke_Effects_C... http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html I don't know if a meteor impact would produce the same prompt radiation as a H-bomb, but the much less dense Martian atmosphere might negate that.
- tgflynn 14y ago
  Most of the ionizing radiation from an H bomb is produced by nuclear fusion or from fission from the trigger and decay products. An asteroid impact wouldn't produce any of that. The only ionizing radiation it might produce are some x-rays from the fireball plasma (but I'm not sure the plasma would even be hot enough for that). The blast and thermal effects would presumably be comparable, however, so at 16 km you'd definitely notice (and might be in a very uncomfortable situation).

troels 14y ago

Their model suggests that Tunguska-type events of around 10 megatons should occur roughly once a century and smaller 1 megaton events once every 15 years. If the rate is 1/15 years on Earth, why haven't I witnessed any yet? I suspect the answer is that Earth is rather large. Mars may not be quite as big, but it's still quite implausible that our Mars visitors should happen to be at just the wrong place at the wrong time, even with a 5-times increase in risk.

tgflynn 14y ago
It seems like if a 1 megaton impact were occurring on Earth every 15 years people would have noticed more than seems to be the case. You would expect more than one such event per century to occur on land and I think the vast majority of the Earth's land is populated, at least sparsely. Also for the past 50 years or so governments have been very interested in tracking large explosions so even such events occurring over water should have been detected and, I would think, mentioned in the media.
- Gravityloss 14y ago
  Yes. This doesn't pass the smell test. I first suspected the article produces a garbled version of the research, but the abstract says the same too: http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.3273 http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.3273 " In particular, for energies of one megaton or larger we find near one impact every three years for Mars, an interesting and concerning result for future Mars explorations. The corresponding calculations for our planet give a probability of one impact per 15 years"
  - tomrod 14y ago
    Doesn't pass my smell test either. I suspect perhaps there are some jiggered parameters in the model.
  - debacle 14y ago
    Perhaps the "1 megaton" nomer is for what encounters our atmosphere, not necessarily what impacts our surface.
    - troels 14y ago
      That might be the case, but then it's not really something to be worried about, is it? I mean, then they're basically saying that astronauts on Mars will see shooting stars a bit more often than on Earth.
      - 14y ago

mkelley 14y ago

Ok so what is that in Hiroshimas?

nakedrobot2 14y ago
According to 10 seconds googling, little boy and fat man were both somewhere around 20 KILOtons.
tgflynn 14y ago
About 50X.

aptwebapps 14y ago

When they say one megaton, do they mean total energy released during entry or something? There's no way we're having the equivalent of a one megaton nuke (minus the fallout) on the surface every fifteen years ... Or are we just in a dry patch? Edit: The actual paper says 'impact' so I don't know what to think here.

andyjohnson0 14y ago

First sentence: "Asteroid impacts are among the most feared of natural catastrophes." Maybe I'm being picky, but I don't think that this is actually true.

pavel_lishin 14y ago
The word "among" makes it a pretty subjective thing.

jere 14y ago

>Here’s the interesting part: these guys calcaulte that Mars experiences a 1 megaton event every three years. We've had orbiting satellites around Mars for over a decade. Wouldn't they be capable of seeing such an impact?

InclinedPlane 14y ago
We've had launch and nuclear explosion detection satellites around the Earth for decades and we haven't detected anything like 1 megaton impact event every 15 years.

danielweber 14y ago

Nevertheless, these kind of predictions require further study. There's the money quote. Quite literally. There are all sorts of people who see the path to Mars littered with bags of money and are quite happy to insert themselves into the path.