3 ms·

Alcohol is a carcinogen, famous for causing various upper gastrointestinal cancers. It also isn't great for brain cells. Why are these reasons not enough to qui

Alcohol is a carcinogen, famous for causing various upper gastrointestinal cancers. It also isn't great for brain cells. Why are these reasons not enough to quit it? If you want something to drink in the evenings, how about a cup of mild bancha green tea andor rooibos tea andor hibiscus tea? If you do, please get the loose leaf product only, never the bagged product, as the latter infuses microplastics.

arpinum 2mo ago
Dose makes the poison. And some substances are beneficial at low doses and harmful at high doses. Do you foreswear aspirin?
- jvican 2mo ago
  Agreed - it's all in the dose and the response. Not even mentioning the selection pressure for us to adapt to at least small amounts of alcohol in our diet, which has been present in basic things such as fermented fruits that we had to eat in our ancestral environment.
  - OutOfHere 2mo ago
    There is no safe dose of alcohol for the brain. Our ancestral environment didn't require us to live past the age of 30.
    - jvican 2mo ago
      Fair, but it depends on how far you want to go down the memory lane. It's not unheard of that Greeks would live until they're 60 or 70yo. That's about 2500 years ago. Not as much as 100s of thousands of years ago, but the selection pressure is still present, and who knows how far back it might have gone.
- preg_match 2mo ago
  My understanding is there are no health benefits at any dose. There are social and comfort benefits, and that might be worth it, but there's no health benefits. Also dose does not always make the poison. I did chemotherapy, there's no safe dose of chemotherapy. Or, at least, my chemotherapy. Yes it was worth it, but I will also have lifelong effects from it. There's no safe amount of heavy metals to infuse into people's blood. It's, quite literally, poison, cytotoxic, it's singular purpose is to kill living cells. Yes your body can rebound, but the DNA damage, vascular damage, pulmonary damage, is permanent. Anyway, that doesn't mean you can't drink. But my perspective has, naturally, shifted. Now I view the comfort of alcohol as not a benefit, but a crutch. How many skills could I have learned over the years if I did not drink, and sat in discomfort? How behind am I now? Turns out very behind, and I have to build those skills now. Or become a hermit, but I don't want to do that. Or just say fuck it and drink, but at this point my DNA is so damaged I'll get cancer again. So discomfort it is, and hopefully I build those skills over enough time.
- OutOfHere 2mo ago
  Even low to moderate doses of alcoholic drinks are known to be harmful to the brain and to cognition. There is no safe dose of alcohol for the brain.
readthenotes1 2mo ago
In small doses, alcohol may have other benefits that outweigh the risk of gastrointestinal cancer. Whether it's as strong as the now Resveratrol scam or not is a matter to study honestly, though that quality seems beyond the reach of many humans motivated to prioritize something else.
- OutOfHere 2mo ago
  Overall, resveratrol is not a scam. It is a major microbiota modulator. It has to be taken in a low dose though for this purpose. The scam aspect may hold true at a high dose, e.g. 500 mg, but I am saying it is not so at a low dose.
chrisjj 2mo ago
> never the bagged product, as the latter infuses microplastics. Seriously? How can a paper tea bag infuse microplastics?
- preg_match 2mo ago
  Many (most?) papers are lined with plastic. If you feel it and it's smooth in texture, it's probably plastic. Plastic famously leeches through heat. Yes there are heat-resistant plastics, but they're typically hard plastics. Tea bags are not hard. I don't know if the tea thing is true, but it makes sense to me intuitively. Microplastics leak into water from washing machines a lot. Heat + soft plastic clothes = microplastic in water. Tea seems like the same concept on a smaller scale.
  - chrisjj 2mo ago
    Plastic-free teabags are a thing e.g. https://www.hampsteadtea.com/ https://www.hampsteadtea.com/
    - OutOfHere 2mo ago
      I don't know about this brand, but very often the claim is a complete lie. Often such brands use PLA which is a bioplastic, but the brand doesn't count it as a plastic when advertising it as being plastic-free. Do they even tell you what the material is? Without knowing much more, it's not a risk worth taking.
      - chrisjj 2mo ago
        > Do they even tell you what the material is? They do. Click the link.
        OutOfHere 2mo ago
        > unbleached paper, folded and stitched with cotton Apologies. That's the best material I have come across for a tea bag. I am hoping that PFAS wasn't added to lubricate the paper during its manufacture, which is a distinct concern from bleaching it.
smallnix 2mo ago
Because risk/benefit assessment is different from person to person.
kelnos 2mo ago
Because sometimes people decide that the risk of something bad happening is worth it. I don't drink as much or as often as I used to, but I've had a lot of fun drinking and being drunk. I wouldn't trade much of a shorter life for alcohol, but we should accept that some people might, and that's their choice to make. As a more extreme example, let's say someone is told they can choose to live only another five years, but be in perfect health for those years, or they can choose to live for another 30 years, but they'll be paralyzed from the neck down for those years. I would absolutely accept that different people might choose differently. And if people can make a different choice in that case, certainly they can choose have a higher risk of cancer or perhaps lose a few years off their life, in exchange for an activity that makes them happier.

arpinum 2mo ago

Dose makes the poison. And some substances are beneficial at low doses and harmful at high doses. Do you foreswear aspirin?

jvican 2mo ago
Agreed - it's all in the dose and the response. Not even mentioning the selection pressure for us to adapt to at least small amounts of alcohol in our diet, which has been present in basic things such as fermented fruits that we had to eat in our ancestral environment.
- OutOfHere 2mo ago
  There is no safe dose of alcohol for the brain. Our ancestral environment didn't require us to live past the age of 30.
  - jvican 2mo ago
    Fair, but it depends on how far you want to go down the memory lane. It's not unheard of that Greeks would live until they're 60 or 70yo. That's about 2500 years ago. Not as much as 100s of thousands of years ago, but the selection pressure is still present, and who knows how far back it might have gone.
preg_match 2mo ago
My understanding is there are no health benefits at any dose. There are social and comfort benefits, and that might be worth it, but there's no health benefits. Also dose does not always make the poison. I did chemotherapy, there's no safe dose of chemotherapy. Or, at least, my chemotherapy. Yes it was worth it, but I will also have lifelong effects from it. There's no safe amount of heavy metals to infuse into people's blood. It's, quite literally, poison, cytotoxic, it's singular purpose is to kill living cells. Yes your body can rebound, but the DNA damage, vascular damage, pulmonary damage, is permanent. Anyway, that doesn't mean you can't drink. But my perspective has, naturally, shifted. Now I view the comfort of alcohol as not a benefit, but a crutch. How many skills could I have learned over the years if I did not drink, and sat in discomfort? How behind am I now? Turns out very behind, and I have to build those skills now. Or become a hermit, but I don't want to do that. Or just say fuck it and drink, but at this point my DNA is so damaged I'll get cancer again. So discomfort it is, and hopefully I build those skills over enough time.
OutOfHere 2mo ago
Even low to moderate doses of alcoholic drinks are known to be harmful to the brain and to cognition. There is no safe dose of alcohol for the brain.

readthenotes1 2mo ago

In small doses, alcohol may have other benefits that outweigh the risk of gastrointestinal cancer. Whether it's as strong as the now Resveratrol scam or not is a matter to study honestly, though that quality seems beyond the reach of many humans motivated to prioritize something else.

OutOfHere 2mo ago
Overall, resveratrol is not a scam. It is a major microbiota modulator. It has to be taken in a low dose though for this purpose. The scam aspect may hold true at a high dose, e.g. 500 mg, but I am saying it is not so at a low dose.

chrisjj 2mo ago

> never the bagged product, as the latter infuses microplastics. Seriously? How can a paper tea bag infuse microplastics?

preg_match 2mo ago
Many (most?) papers are lined with plastic. If you feel it and it's smooth in texture, it's probably plastic. Plastic famously leeches through heat. Yes there are heat-resistant plastics, but they're typically hard plastics. Tea bags are not hard. I don't know if the tea thing is true, but it makes sense to me intuitively. Microplastics leak into water from washing machines a lot. Heat + soft plastic clothes = microplastic in water. Tea seems like the same concept on a smaller scale.
- chrisjj 2mo ago
  Plastic-free teabags are a thing e.g. https://www.hampsteadtea.com/ https://www.hampsteadtea.com/
  - OutOfHere 2mo ago
    I don't know about this brand, but very often the claim is a complete lie. Often such brands use PLA which is a bioplastic, but the brand doesn't count it as a plastic when advertising it as being plastic-free. Do they even tell you what the material is? Without knowing much more, it's not a risk worth taking.
    - chrisjj 2mo ago
      > Do they even tell you what the material is? They do. Click the link.
      - OutOfHere 2mo ago
        > unbleached paper, folded and stitched with cotton Apologies. That's the best material I have come across for a tea bag. I am hoping that PFAS wasn't added to lubricate the paper during its manufacture, which is a distinct concern from bleaching it.

smallnix 2mo ago

Because risk/benefit assessment is different from person to person.

kelnos 2mo ago

Because sometimes people decide that the risk of something bad happening is worth it. I don't drink as much or as often as I used to, but I've had a lot of fun drinking and being drunk. I wouldn't trade much of a shorter life for alcohol, but we should accept that some people might, and that's their choice to make. As a more extreme example, let's say someone is told they can choose to live only another five years, but be in perfect health for those years, or they can choose to live for another 30 years, but they'll be paralyzed from the neck down for those years. I would absolutely accept that different people might choose differently. And if people can make a different choice in that case, certainly they can choose have a higher risk of cancer or perhaps lose a few years off their life, in exchange for an activity that makes them happier.