4 ms·

My personal opinion: all output from LLMs is hallucinations. The idea that it’s “right” or “wrong”, when stating factual information is really in the eye of the

by ebcode 1mo ago

My personal opinion: all output from LLMs is hallucinations. The idea that it’s “right” or “wrong”, when stating factual information is really in the eye of the beholder/user. What year did astronauts land on the moon? — is a question that may or may not have a factual answer depending on your own beliefs. Philosophically, you would need to also define what a fact is, or what “not hallucinating” is, to define what a hallucination is. My understanding is that this property of the LLM architecture is innate, and until we have “world model” LLMs, or some other model that reasons from first principles, instead of the current “guess the next word” model, this isn’t going away. Just don’t rely on the for facts.

deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
spl757 1mo ago
I'm talking about software being allowed to make the decision to put bullets through a human being without any human in the chain except the dead guy.
- defrost 1mo ago
  Is this distinct from the hardware in a land mine making the decision to explode shrapnel through a human being without any human in the chain except the dead guy. Worth noting that both cases indirectly involve the humans that designed devices and the humans that made the placement and trigger condition decisions. Further: > AI drones are being used to autonomously target and kill targets by the Ukraine using technology they have been given. Ukrainian Combat Robot Holds Frontline Position for Six Weeks in Sign of Growing UGV Maturity - https://defenceleaders.com/news/ukrainian-combat-robot-holds-frontline-position-for-six-weeks-in-sign-of-growing-ugv-maturity/ https://defenceleaders.com/news/ukrainian-combat-robot-holds... are remote operated, they allow defenders cover while themselves being out and exposed. However were they altered to autonomously fire, that would be on the basis of pattern matching in the visible and infra red spectrum - shoot at all hot blobs. That's more of a trigger threshold setting issue than an LLM hallucination issue, and the danger is on par with any weapon system on auto fire, you really shouldn't approach such things until they are put in a safe off state or have exhausted ammunition.
  - spl757 1mo ago
    yes, yes it absfuckinglutely is. IMHO
  - spl757 1mo ago
    I guess what I'm really asking is whether or not it's moral and ethical to use AI that targets autonomously? My understanding is that it's being used that way, but I can't back that up and I'll take your word for it if that's not the case. But it is certainly a plausible scenario. Everyone invested in AI seems determined to put it in everything because they need consumers to want to pay for it, and right now they haven't figured out a way to earn back from consumers the over a trillion dollars that has been put into the AI bubble. I don't have much faith that the people with billions invested don't want return on their investment, and I don't think they care about the consequences necessary to get it back. edit for clarity
    - defrost 1mo ago
      > moral and ethical to use AI that targets autonomously? First point, vision systems have been used in industry to look for misaligned labels, incorrectly folded papers (in high speed paper presses), wrong items on high speed conveyor belts etc. for thirty odd years now - they have issues that a very distinct from LLM 'AI' hallucinations. That's nomenclature out the way. Landmines are indiscriminate, they trigger on any weight or pressure over a threshold. A vision based Felixer, by contrast, only triggers on cats (well, almost always only) and leaves bilbies and bettongs to walk on by. That's an improvement over landmines. The crux of your issue here might be the morality and ethics of establishing human exclusion zones within which all humans are highly likely to die. These historically are created with rapid patterned artillery fire, butterfly mines, Napalm, indiscriminate criss crossing machine gun fire, etc. Now there exists an option to use drones to kill all humans and leave the horses and cows alive. Is it your concern that a bad vision threshold might kill a horse rather than a person? (Likely not) Would you prefer an area to be napalm'd and agent orange'd back to dust? War is hell. * https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-device-felixer-tested-at-animal-reserve/12296874 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-...

by ebcode 1mo ago

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

spl757 1mo ago

I'm talking about software being allowed to make the decision to put bullets through a human being without any human in the chain except the dead guy.

defrost 1mo ago
Is this distinct from the hardware in a land mine making the decision to explode shrapnel through a human being without any human in the chain except the dead guy. Worth noting that both cases indirectly involve the humans that designed devices and the humans that made the placement and trigger condition decisions. Further: > AI drones are being used to autonomously target and kill targets by the Ukraine using technology they have been given. Ukrainian Combat Robot Holds Frontline Position for Six Weeks in Sign of Growing UGV Maturity - https://defenceleaders.com/news/ukrainian-combat-robot-holds-frontline-position-for-six-weeks-in-sign-of-growing-ugv-maturity/ https://defenceleaders.com/news/ukrainian-combat-robot-holds... are remote operated, they allow defenders cover while themselves being out and exposed. However were they altered to autonomously fire, that would be on the basis of pattern matching in the visible and infra red spectrum - shoot at all hot blobs. That's more of a trigger threshold setting issue than an LLM hallucination issue, and the danger is on par with any weapon system on auto fire, you really shouldn't approach such things until they are put in a safe off state or have exhausted ammunition.
- spl757 1mo ago
  yes, yes it absfuckinglutely is. IMHO
- spl757 1mo ago
  I guess what I'm really asking is whether or not it's moral and ethical to use AI that targets autonomously? My understanding is that it's being used that way, but I can't back that up and I'll take your word for it if that's not the case. But it is certainly a plausible scenario. Everyone invested in AI seems determined to put it in everything because they need consumers to want to pay for it, and right now they haven't figured out a way to earn back from consumers the over a trillion dollars that has been put into the AI bubble. I don't have much faith that the people with billions invested don't want return on their investment, and I don't think they care about the consequences necessary to get it back. edit for clarity
  - defrost 1mo ago
    > moral and ethical to use AI that targets autonomously? First point, vision systems have been used in industry to look for misaligned labels, incorrectly folded papers (in high speed paper presses), wrong items on high speed conveyor belts etc. for thirty odd years now - they have issues that a very distinct from LLM 'AI' hallucinations. That's nomenclature out the way. Landmines are indiscriminate, they trigger on any weight or pressure over a threshold. A vision based Felixer, by contrast, only triggers on cats (well, almost always only) and leaves bilbies and bettongs to walk on by. That's an improvement over landmines. The crux of your issue here might be the morality and ethics of establishing human exclusion zones within which all humans are highly likely to die. These historically are created with rapid patterned artillery fire, butterfly mines, Napalm, indiscriminate criss crossing machine gun fire, etc. Now there exists an option to use drones to kill all humans and leave the horses and cows alive. Is it your concern that a bad vision threshold might kill a horse rather than a person? (Likely not) Would you prefer an area to be napalm'd and agent orange'd back to dust? War is hell. * https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-device-felixer-tested-at-animal-reserve/12296874 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/feral-cat-management-...