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This bike booster will probably come in at less than half the cost but the Bimotal kit is another option that doesn't have the tire wear issue, offers better pe

This bike booster will probably come in at less than half the cost but the Bimotal kit is another option that doesn't have the tire wear issue, offers better performance, and the form factor is much nicer. https://bimotal.com/products/elevate https://bimotal.com/products/elevate

fwipsy 2mo ago
Wow, $2k? You could get a decent ebike for that money. And the installation doesn't look any easier than a hub motor... Only seems worth it if you already have an extremely nice bike. I think of friction drives as being aimed at budget-conscious commuters, not serious mountain bikers.
- KennyBlanken 2mo ago
  You can get a nice ebike for that money if you're even slightly patient in waiting for a sale to hit.
- CitrusFruits 2mo ago
  Bimotal is removable after the installation: the motor and battery can both be taken off in under 30 seconds and you're left with just the cables and a specialized brake disc. I'd say that's its main differentiator. It is definitely more for premium bikes though and even then isn't for everyone.
- flexagoon 2mo ago
  > Only seems worth it if you already have an extremely nice bike How nice should one's bike be that you'd rather turn it into a mediocre ebike for the price of buying a good ebike?
  - DonHopkins 2mo ago
    Extrordinarily nice! AAH! HA HA! HA HA! AAH! GERONIMO! HA HA! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_1LOYLPsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_1LOYLPsM
  - Arainach 2mo ago
    Your existing bike hopefully fits you great rather than having to modify a low-mid grade ebike. Perhaps you don't have space for more bikes. Perhaps you want a bike made of good components that are easy to repair. It's a significant amount of money but there are absolutely reasons. I have a ebike that cost ~1500 in 2018 and is probably comparable to what $2k would buy you these days. It's very heavy and while the drivetrain is repairable, there are important pieces of it that I would struggle to repair/replace if they died today. I have a steel touring bike that's significantly lighter, has standard sized parts that can be repaired, replaced and upgraded (many of which I have already upgraded in the last 15 years) and fits me like a glove. If I didn't own an ebike and you asked me whether I'd rather spend $2k buying something like my ebike or adding a 750W motor to my Surly, I'd upgrade my touring bike.
  - fwipsy 2mo ago
    It really depends on your standard for "good." Some people spend $5-10k+ on their mountain bike. If you're looking at getting an ebike of similar quality, then I could see this being an attractive alternative.
- selfhoster1312 2mo ago
  I was shocked by the price, too. I mean a motor and a battery can't be so expensive, especially such a "small" battery (300Wh). That being said, having driven electric bikes for a while, here in France they're ridiculously limited in speed and power. 25km/h limit on flat land usually makes sense (except on long straight lines), but when you get climbing even slightly you get down to ~10km/h and have to provide more effort. I guess that's where the 750/1250W 70Nm unrestrained motor comes in handy, and if you live in a place with lots of small hills the choice is either that kind of motor or a car, not the 1000€-total Decathlon/Carrefour electric bike.
  - bramblerose 2mo ago
    In my experience the issue is one of torque, not of power. Most cheaper electric bicycles (including most Decathlon models) have a hub-mounted motor which cannot deliver power effectively at low speeds -> it stops assisting when you most need it. For hilly terrain you need a motor that's mounted on the crankshaft so that it can take advantage of the gears. To compare: a tour de france runner outputs 400-500W on mountain climbs while keeping up to 20-25km/h. So a 500W motor (plus 100W power output from yourself) should be enough for smaller climbs!
    - DonHopkins 2mo ago
      My Koga has an Enviolo stepless bicycle automatic transmission, which frees me from thinking about shifting, so I can pay more attention to riding safely and effortlessly. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48761621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48761621 DonHopkins 44 days ago | root | parent | prev | next [–] Enviolo stepless bicycle automatic transmission (never manually shift again, accelerate while continuously shifting under load), with a carbon fiber belt drive (maintainance free, silent, never get grease on your pants or hands again), and Bosch Performance Line mid-motor (strong zippy performance from the geniuses who paid a €90 million fine for Dieselgate), plus GPS tracker with "recovery service" (required for insurance). https://enviolo.com/ https://enviolo.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQrgKBQrkag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQrgKBQrkag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI https://www.koga.com/en/enviolo-gear-hub https://www.koga.com/en/enviolo-gear-hub https://www.koga.com/en/bikes/e-bikes/evia-pro-automatic?frame=D https://www.koga.com/en/bikes/e-bikes/evia-pro-automatic?fra... It's a dream bike, optimized for comfort and city riding, but Koga is not available in the US, though. Here's an American bike that has similar features (not as nice as the high-end Koga Evia Pro Automatic though), the Harley Davidson Rush/CTY (step through model is easiest to mount/unmount/ride): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SjN8RN9g7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SjN8RN9g7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoX9S5UhETE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoX9S5UhETE https://serial1.nl/ https://serial1.nl/ The Enviolo Automatic also come in a heavy duty version paired with high performance motors for bakfiets (cargo bikes), for 3-4 children, big dogs, and groceries: https://batavus.com/en-nl/products/fier-3-bbfn3 https://batavus.com/en-nl/products/fier-3-bbfn3 https://www.dw.com/en/bosch-pays-90-million-euro-fine-over-d https://www.dw.com/en/bosch-pays-90-million-euro-fine-over-d... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal Edit: Fair, they're ideal for city bikes, stop-and-go traffic, and the flat Dutch landscape where they're produced, where the biggest "mountains" you encounter are the bridges over canals. Their city model has 310%, trekking 380%, and the new utility hub has 400% gear range, which you can use on a normal bike, bakfiets, or speed pedelec. https://enviolo.com/news/enviolo-launches-the-utility-hub/ https://enviolo.com/news/enviolo-launches-the-utility-hub/
- veunes 2mo ago
  $2k makes sense only if the bike underneath it is valuable enough that you specifically want to keep riding that bike
  - blitzar 2mo ago
    If the bike underneath is valuable enough you dont want to strap a motor and battery to it.
- stemlord 2mo ago
  I think in nyc I'd prefer to lock my $100 dumper of a bike on the street and be able to take the expensive component with me, if this thing is as detachable as it seems
  - Waterluvian 2mo ago
    Hadn’t even considered this regional requirement. That makes sense.
    - asdefghyk 2mo ago
      In the linked page it shows the battery as easily removable. If the potential thief , realizes the battery has been removed, "I think" it would sharply reduce?? the attractiveness of ebike theft to the thief ?
  - rafram 2mo ago
    It may just be that I’m comparing to the Bay Area, but I’ve never been that concerned about bike theft in NYC. If you lock your bike with a good lock and leave it somewhere with plenty of foot traffic, it’s quite unlikely to be stolen. Most people don’t even bother locking the wheels! Just a U-lock through the frame.
- DenisM 2mo ago
  Mountain bikes one level down from professional tier start at 6-8k. If I could pay 2k and get a nice electric bike from my nice muscle bike it would be a bargain. However bimotal is not that nice - adding a motor to rear triangle alters weight distribution and adds unsprung weight. Also unlike actual nice MTB e-bikes it cannot use chain/casssete for gearing, so gearing is fixed at the factory. If you’re used to nice bikes you will want your ebike to be dialed in just right. One place where it makes sense is as an alternative to shuttling on forest roads / lifts for downhill-focused riding. F you’re going strictly downhill you can move the motor to the backpack after finishing the climb to reduce unsprung weight. This opens up a large number of trails where forest roads are blocked to car traffic. It also allows dh riding on trail where motor bikes are prohibited.
- Kephael 2mo ago
  Bike equipment is ridiculously high margin. Motorcycles and mopeds are extremely common commuting vehicles in much of the world, yet i'm surprised motorcycles aren't more popular since they offer much more capability and are a better value.
Toutouxc 2mo ago
As a mountain biker I don’t see the appeal of this. Yes, this rather expensive solution could transform my nice bike into a shitty e-bike, but the point of having a nice bike is to avoid a shitty experience. A proper e-bike needs to be designed as an e-bike from the beginning.
- DenisM 2mo ago
  Shuttling? Once you remove the motor and put it into a backpack downhill riding should be quite decent. Decent enough I think to make it worth it for the space and cash saved.
  - Toutouxc 2mo ago
    Personally I’m not doing any downhill riding with the motor in my backpack. Or really anything hard with sharp edges. I like having a working spine. Either it’s unsprung mass or a liability, and, well, actual e-bikes have converged on BB motors for a number of reasons.
broadsidepicnic 2mo ago
Oh I like this idea. Looks simple and lightweight. Expensive as f though. Also the gear-thingy looks proprietary (=expensive).
nomel 2mo ago
That's a terrible kit that should never be considered. You can get 6kW monster kits like the CYC X1 Pro, and battery, for that price!
Bobaso 2mo ago
Look cool, but the screwholes mount on the bike frame are not designed for force in this direction (*pulling force*), frame screwholes attachment are designed for *pushing force* (from the breaks). Thus, I guess this solution would damage the frame.

fwipsy 2mo ago

Wow, $2k? You could get a decent ebike for that money. And the installation doesn't look any easier than a hub motor... Only seems worth it if you already have an extremely nice bike. I think of friction drives as being aimed at budget-conscious commuters, not serious mountain bikers.

KennyBlanken 2mo ago
You can get a nice ebike for that money if you're even slightly patient in waiting for a sale to hit.
CitrusFruits 2mo ago
Bimotal is removable after the installation: the motor and battery can both be taken off in under 30 seconds and you're left with just the cables and a specialized brake disc. I'd say that's its main differentiator. It is definitely more for premium bikes though and even then isn't for everyone.
flexagoon 2mo ago
> Only seems worth it if you already have an extremely nice bike How nice should one's bike be that you'd rather turn it into a mediocre ebike for the price of buying a good ebike?
- DonHopkins 2mo ago
  Extrordinarily nice! AAH! HA HA! HA HA! AAH! GERONIMO! HA HA! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_1LOYLPsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_1LOYLPsM
- Arainach 2mo ago
  Your existing bike hopefully fits you great rather than having to modify a low-mid grade ebike. Perhaps you don't have space for more bikes. Perhaps you want a bike made of good components that are easy to repair. It's a significant amount of money but there are absolutely reasons. I have a ebike that cost ~1500 in 2018 and is probably comparable to what $2k would buy you these days. It's very heavy and while the drivetrain is repairable, there are important pieces of it that I would struggle to repair/replace if they died today. I have a steel touring bike that's significantly lighter, has standard sized parts that can be repaired, replaced and upgraded (many of which I have already upgraded in the last 15 years) and fits me like a glove. If I didn't own an ebike and you asked me whether I'd rather spend $2k buying something like my ebike or adding a 750W motor to my Surly, I'd upgrade my touring bike.
- fwipsy 2mo ago
  It really depends on your standard for "good." Some people spend $5-10k+ on their mountain bike. If you're looking at getting an ebike of similar quality, then I could see this being an attractive alternative.
selfhoster1312 2mo ago
I was shocked by the price, too. I mean a motor and a battery can't be so expensive, especially such a "small" battery (300Wh). That being said, having driven electric bikes for a while, here in France they're ridiculously limited in speed and power. 25km/h limit on flat land usually makes sense (except on long straight lines), but when you get climbing even slightly you get down to ~10km/h and have to provide more effort. I guess that's where the 750/1250W 70Nm unrestrained motor comes in handy, and if you live in a place with lots of small hills the choice is either that kind of motor or a car, not the 1000€-total Decathlon/Carrefour electric bike.
- bramblerose 2mo ago
  In my experience the issue is one of torque, not of power. Most cheaper electric bicycles (including most Decathlon models) have a hub-mounted motor which cannot deliver power effectively at low speeds -> it stops assisting when you most need it. For hilly terrain you need a motor that's mounted on the crankshaft so that it can take advantage of the gears. To compare: a tour de france runner outputs 400-500W on mountain climbs while keeping up to 20-25km/h. So a 500W motor (plus 100W power output from yourself) should be enough for smaller climbs!
  - DonHopkins 2mo ago
    My Koga has an Enviolo stepless bicycle automatic transmission, which frees me from thinking about shifting, so I can pay more attention to riding safely and effortlessly. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48761621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48761621 DonHopkins 44 days ago | root | parent | prev | next [–] Enviolo stepless bicycle automatic transmission (never manually shift again, accelerate while continuously shifting under load), with a carbon fiber belt drive (maintainance free, silent, never get grease on your pants or hands again), and Bosch Performance Line mid-motor (strong zippy performance from the geniuses who paid a €90 million fine for Dieselgate), plus GPS tracker with "recovery service" (required for insurance). https://enviolo.com/ https://enviolo.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQrgKBQrkag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQrgKBQrkag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI https://www.koga.com/en/enviolo-gear-hub https://www.koga.com/en/enviolo-gear-hub https://www.koga.com/en/bikes/e-bikes/evia-pro-automatic?frame=D https://www.koga.com/en/bikes/e-bikes/evia-pro-automatic?fra... It's a dream bike, optimized for comfort and city riding, but Koga is not available in the US, though. Here's an American bike that has similar features (not as nice as the high-end Koga Evia Pro Automatic though), the Harley Davidson Rush/CTY (step through model is easiest to mount/unmount/ride): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SjN8RN9g7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SjN8RN9g7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoX9S5UhETE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoX9S5UhETE https://serial1.nl/ https://serial1.nl/ The Enviolo Automatic also come in a heavy duty version paired with high performance motors for bakfiets (cargo bikes), for 3-4 children, big dogs, and groceries: https://batavus.com/en-nl/products/fier-3-bbfn3 https://batavus.com/en-nl/products/fier-3-bbfn3 https://www.dw.com/en/bosch-pays-90-million-euro-fine-over-d https://www.dw.com/en/bosch-pays-90-million-euro-fine-over-d... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal Edit: Fair, they're ideal for city bikes, stop-and-go traffic, and the flat Dutch landscape where they're produced, where the biggest "mountains" you encounter are the bridges over canals. Their city model has 310%, trekking 380%, and the new utility hub has 400% gear range, which you can use on a normal bike, bakfiets, or speed pedelec. https://enviolo.com/news/enviolo-launches-the-utility-hub/ https://enviolo.com/news/enviolo-launches-the-utility-hub/
veunes 2mo ago
$2k makes sense only if the bike underneath it is valuable enough that you specifically want to keep riding that bike
- blitzar 2mo ago
  If the bike underneath is valuable enough you dont want to strap a motor and battery to it.
stemlord 2mo ago
I think in nyc I'd prefer to lock my $100 dumper of a bike on the street and be able to take the expensive component with me, if this thing is as detachable as it seems
- Waterluvian 2mo ago
  Hadn’t even considered this regional requirement. That makes sense.
  - asdefghyk 2mo ago
    In the linked page it shows the battery as easily removable. If the potential thief , realizes the battery has been removed, "I think" it would sharply reduce?? the attractiveness of ebike theft to the thief ?
- rafram 2mo ago
  It may just be that I’m comparing to the Bay Area, but I’ve never been that concerned about bike theft in NYC. If you lock your bike with a good lock and leave it somewhere with plenty of foot traffic, it’s quite unlikely to be stolen. Most people don’t even bother locking the wheels! Just a U-lock through the frame.
DenisM 2mo ago
Mountain bikes one level down from professional tier start at 6-8k. If I could pay 2k and get a nice electric bike from my nice muscle bike it would be a bargain. However bimotal is not that nice - adding a motor to rear triangle alters weight distribution and adds unsprung weight. Also unlike actual nice MTB e-bikes it cannot use chain/casssete for gearing, so gearing is fixed at the factory. If you’re used to nice bikes you will want your ebike to be dialed in just right. One place where it makes sense is as an alternative to shuttling on forest roads / lifts for downhill-focused riding. F you’re going strictly downhill you can move the motor to the backpack after finishing the climb to reduce unsprung weight. This opens up a large number of trails where forest roads are blocked to car traffic. It also allows dh riding on trail where motor bikes are prohibited.
Kephael 2mo ago
Bike equipment is ridiculously high margin. Motorcycles and mopeds are extremely common commuting vehicles in much of the world, yet i'm surprised motorcycles aren't more popular since they offer much more capability and are a better value.

Toutouxc 2mo ago

As a mountain biker I don’t see the appeal of this. Yes, this rather expensive solution could transform my nice bike into a shitty e-bike, but the point of having a nice bike is to avoid a shitty experience. A proper e-bike needs to be designed as an e-bike from the beginning.

DenisM 2mo ago
Shuttling? Once you remove the motor and put it into a backpack downhill riding should be quite decent. Decent enough I think to make it worth it for the space and cash saved.
- Toutouxc 2mo ago
  Personally I’m not doing any downhill riding with the motor in my backpack. Or really anything hard with sharp edges. I like having a working spine. Either it’s unsprung mass or a liability, and, well, actual e-bikes have converged on BB motors for a number of reasons.

broadsidepicnic 2mo ago

Oh I like this idea. Looks simple and lightweight. Expensive as f though. Also the gear-thingy looks proprietary (=expensive).

nomel 2mo ago

That's a terrible kit that should never be considered. You can get 6kW monster kits like the CYC X1 Pro, and battery, for that price!

Bobaso 2mo ago

Look cool, but the screwholes mount on the bike frame are not designed for force in this direction (*pulling force*), frame screwholes attachment are designed for *pushing force* (from the breaks). Thus, I guess this solution would damage the frame.