4 ms·

> actual verifiable truth.. Do you know what tomorrow holds, as an actual verifiable truth? I suppose no, but why do you act like you know something about it.

by qsera 2mo ago

> actual verifiable truth.. Do you know what tomorrow holds, as an actual verifiable truth? I suppose no, but why do you act like you know something about it. Like you plan for the next day, and you plan for an uncertain future. Point is, hope is important. And things that bring hope, even if it is not "actual verifiable truth", is valuable. Sure a lot of exploitation happen in the name of religion. But I would say that exploitation happen in the name of science as well. It might be time to stop shaming people for following religion and god. Because humanity have seemed to have throw out the baby with the bath water in the name of rationality. It might be time to correct that mistake.

angoragoats 2mo ago
> Point is, hope is important. And things that bring hope, even if it is not "actual verifiable truth", is valuable. Sure, I agree with this as a general statement. > Sure a lot of exploitation happen in the name of religion. But I would say that exploitation happen in the name of science as well. Mass sexual abuse of children, mass murder, genocide, and terrorism are all things that have happened and continue to happen in the name of religion. I am not aware of any of these things happening in the name of science. Sure, there might be some examples of unethical experiments or other bad stuff, but it seems the scale of the atrocities is way larger on one side than the other. > Because humanity have seemed to have throw out the baby with the bath water in the name of rationality. It might be time to correct that mistake. I don't understand what you mean. I believe things that have evidence to support them. The Christian religion specifically, which is what the parent's app was about, is not supported by any empirical evidence that I'm aware of. Its holy book contains quite a few logical impossibilities and straight up false information, and the god of the book condones atrocities such as slavery and genocide. It doesn't seem to be true, so I don't think it's worth "hoping" it's true. And if I’m wrong on this, and the Christian god someday makes himself known, then I’ll believe he exists, but I certainly still wouldn’t worship him. Maybe other religions are worth believing in (if you have examples with evidence suggesting they're true, I'd consider them!), but Christianity in particular seems to be clearly riddled with falsehoods and immoral behavior.
- qsera 2mo ago
  >but it seems the scale of the atrocities is way larger on one side than the other. "science" is the new religion. You just need to give it time to live upto its potential. It is not too far fetched to imagine mass killings based on science when one side is seen as "risking lives" (because "science" says so) of the other. >I believe things that have evidence to support them. You believe that because you think that will lead to a better outcome for you. But sometimes when every individual does that, it will hurt the group/society, and thus ultimately result in bad outcome for you. Corruption is a good example. Human beings generally does not have the ability to see the big, long term picture and act on it. Which is where religion come. To provide reason and incentive to act in a way that is beneficial long term...
  - angoragoats 2mo ago
    > “science" is the new religion. You just need to give it time to live upto its potential. This is a wild take which makes me think that you don’t know what science is. > It is not too far fetched to imagine mass killings based on science No, that is actually quite far fetched. > You believe that because you think that will lead to a better outcome for you. No, I believe things that have evidence to support them because I think it’s important to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. > Human beings generally does not have the ability to see the big, long term picture and act on it. Which is where religion come. To provide reason and incentive to act in a way that is beneficial long term... You seem to be implying here that it’s hard or impossible to act in the long term or best interest of society without religion. I think that a having secular humanist philosophy which aims for well-being as its main goal is perfectly capable of providing for the long-term benefit of yourself and others.
    - qsera 2mo ago
      Your thoughts does not go deep enough...for example >No, I believe things that have evidence to support them because I think it’s important to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. "important" just mean that you hope that it will, implicitly lead to a better outcome. But you don't identify that equivalence in your own reasoning. This is true for your other points as well, but it is very explicit in this particular one.

by qsera 2mo ago

angoragoats 2mo ago

> Point is, hope is important. And things that bring hope, even if it is not "actual verifiable truth", is valuable. Sure, I agree with this as a general statement. > Sure a lot of exploitation happen in the name of religion. But I would say that exploitation happen in the name of science as well. Mass sexual abuse of children, mass murder, genocide, and terrorism are all things that have happened and continue to happen in the name of religion. I am not aware of any of these things happening in the name of science. Sure, there might be some examples of unethical experiments or other bad stuff, but it seems the scale of the atrocities is way larger on one side than the other. > Because humanity have seemed to have throw out the baby with the bath water in the name of rationality. It might be time to correct that mistake. I don't understand what you mean. I believe things that have evidence to support them. The Christian religion specifically, which is what the parent's app was about, is not supported by any empirical evidence that I'm aware of. Its holy book contains quite a few logical impossibilities and straight up false information, and the god of the book condones atrocities such as slavery and genocide. It doesn't seem to be true, so I don't think it's worth "hoping" it's true. And if I’m wrong on this, and the Christian god someday makes himself known, then I’ll believe he exists, but I certainly still wouldn’t worship him. Maybe other religions are worth believing in (if you have examples with evidence suggesting they're true, I'd consider them!), but Christianity in particular seems to be clearly riddled with falsehoods and immoral behavior.

qsera 2mo ago
>but it seems the scale of the atrocities is way larger on one side than the other. "science" is the new religion. You just need to give it time to live upto its potential. It is not too far fetched to imagine mass killings based on science when one side is seen as "risking lives" (because "science" says so) of the other. >I believe things that have evidence to support them. You believe that because you think that will lead to a better outcome for you. But sometimes when every individual does that, it will hurt the group/society, and thus ultimately result in bad outcome for you. Corruption is a good example. Human beings generally does not have the ability to see the big, long term picture and act on it. Which is where religion come. To provide reason and incentive to act in a way that is beneficial long term...
- angoragoats 2mo ago
  > “science" is the new religion. You just need to give it time to live upto its potential. This is a wild take which makes me think that you don’t know what science is. > It is not too far fetched to imagine mass killings based on science No, that is actually quite far fetched. > You believe that because you think that will lead to a better outcome for you. No, I believe things that have evidence to support them because I think it’s important to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. > Human beings generally does not have the ability to see the big, long term picture and act on it. Which is where religion come. To provide reason and incentive to act in a way that is beneficial long term... You seem to be implying here that it’s hard or impossible to act in the long term or best interest of society without religion. I think that a having secular humanist philosophy which aims for well-being as its main goal is perfectly capable of providing for the long-term benefit of yourself and others.
  - qsera 2mo ago
    Your thoughts does not go deep enough...for example >No, I believe things that have evidence to support them because I think it’s important to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. "important" just mean that you hope that it will, implicitly lead to a better outcome. But you don't identify that equivalence in your own reasoning. This is true for your other points as well, but it is very explicit in this particular one.