3 ms·

one that's routinely within reach of maintenance workers or other airport and airline staff between flights You already trust them (as well as the pilots) ever

one that's routinely within reach of maintenance workers or other airport and airline staff between flights You already trust them (as well as the pilots) every time with your flight.

pudgywalsh 2mo ago
Are these the same maintenance workers that have access to even more sensitive parts of the airplane like the avionics compartment and its miles of wiring? Wait until they find out your mechanic has unfettered access to your car's OBD port when you hand them the keys. They could install a COIN SIZED device on the CAN bus and you'd never know. Some people do this voluntarily in exchange for a discount on their insurance. There's literally millions of people driving newfangled EVs where the car manufacturer has full remote access to their vehicle and can upload software however and whenever they like. I forgot only the nefarious ones wear yellow reflective vests and earmuffs.
- b112 2mo ago
  There's literally millions of people driving newfangled EVs where the car manufacturer has full remote access to their vehicle and can upload software however and whenever they like. This part has been beyond baffling to me. The last thing I want, is to hit the brakes in my car, and suddenly they're less/more sensitive, due to an update the night before, and it really does matter especially on snow/ice. And such updates happen. I also don't want a perfectly good, 100% working car to suddenly degrade in experience because "Wups! Sorry! Last update broke <whatever>, we'll update within the month to fix!". It's just pure, unbridled dumb. I recently bought a car, and the dealer tried to sell me an extended warranty. What? It's under a full warranty right now, and yes, my region has very strong warranty and anti-lemon laws. But my point is, they kept saying "there's a lot of complex and expensive electronics in this car, you're going to need an extended warranty". Um, what? Hello? You just explained that the car breaks down a lot because it's complex? So complex that there are more frequent, highly expensive issues? How is that a plus? If a car is "too complex" to roll out the assembly line, without needing updates to modules on a monthly basis for years, it's the opposite of positive. I've had multiple BCM(body control module) updates, updates to every single module in the car. There shouldn't be enough code to cause issues here, it should be simple, simple, simple. But it's not. It's complex and difficult to make bug free. And that makes me oh so very comfortable as I drive down the road.
  - _puk 2mo ago
    But you bought the car
  - matherial 2mo ago
    > This part has been beyond baffling to me. The last thing I want Most people don't think about it when buying a car, or they have no practical way to evaluate it. So it is one of these things you probably need to fix with legislation, except the legislators love the idea too because sensor-rich, always-online cars give them more tools to police the society. I don't really know what to do with that, short of going neo-Luddite. People often see the excesses of ad tech as a failure of capitalism, but in a sense, we're seeing a tech-driven failure mode for free, democratic societies. In a world where your online presence is tied to your identity and always under the watchful eye of a large language model, and where you can't move from A to B without leaving a digital trail, it's not gonna be fun if you become a thorn in the government's side.
  - forestry 2mo ago
    You also aren’t given a choice. If you decline, “don’t drive it”. Well, I want the car, not the connection. I could probably pull the sim I suppose.
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      You really think a car dealer is going to let you just walk away over some trivial thing instead of fixing it for you?
      - Nextgrid 2mo ago
        Depends how "trivial" is the fix. Are they going to get the workshop to pull out the telematics module? Otherwise the car is still connected and very likely broadcasting telemetry anyway (and the "account" part is handled entirely on the backend). Refusing to set up or use the app is merely a placebo.
  - glimshe 2mo ago
    Last time I bought a car the dealer couldn't enable the Internet features because I said my phone was broken. He looked at me puzzled but I said I could buy the car some other day if that was a problem... A dealer will never let a buying customer leave, so 3 years later my car still can't connect to the Internet.
- bri3d 2mo ago
  > Wait until they find out your mechanic has unfettered access to your car's OBD port when you hand them the keys Surprise! “They” did find this out and UN155/156 regulate a bunch of protections against local “attackers,” often to the detriment of right to repair.
altmanaltman 2mo ago
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/06/avalon-airport-melbourne-man-detained-alleged-firearm-gun-ntwnfb https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/06/avalon-airp... That trust was what led to this incident where someone just walked into the airplane dressed as a maintainence worker and nobody stopped him. Also pilot suicide isn't something new and the aviation world has tried to come up with several regulations to ensure it doesn't happen even though we completely trust pilots on a normalative basis.
- pudgywalsh 2mo ago
  You conveniently left out the part where he walked through a hole in the airport fence. Airfields are expected to be secure areas. If you can walk through a hole in a fence there's issues. Remember a guy stole an entire airplane a few years ago (RIP Sky King). Airplanes don't have ignition keys.
  - markdown 2mo ago
    Is that the legend who managed to do a loop-the-loop?
    - pudgywalsh 2mo ago
      You know it is.
  - altmanaltman 2mo ago
    I shared the link to the entire article so not sure how I left that out. And yes, there was a hole in the airport fence but he got so far because people trust these workers but that can be abused. And in that case (sky king), the guy was actually a maintainence worker who stole the plane. So just saying its okay to be vulnerable just because we trust all actors around the vulnerability, especially when its as easy as a freaking hole to abuse that trust is not a strong argument. RIP Sky King.
  - kotaKat 2mo ago
    The only subset I've seen with keys are old single-prop Cessnas (makes sense) but every old codger just leaves their keys in the plane anyways. Sooooooome private jets actually bother to slap a Medeco on the external doors, at least, but that's still the only control keeping you grounded.
Nextgrid 2mo ago
With the low pay and ever-worsening working conditions, I'd be more worried about oversights/negligence than intentional sabotage (which sometimes happens all the way at manufacturing stage - see the Boeing door incident). Unfortunately, that is unlikely to get media coverage because the solution would be to respect and pay workers more, a severe crime in a late-stage capitalistic society.
- gryfft 2mo ago
  > the solution would be to respect and pay workers more Not to worry, they're furiously working on an alternative which will ensure no worker must ever be respected or paid ever again!
- userbinator 2mo ago
  because the solution would be to respect and pay workers more, They're already quite well-paid (and so are pilots). In fact the operating margins of airlines are infamously thin, so unless you want plane tickets to be several times their current price, it won't work.

one that's routinely within reach of maintenance workers or other airport and airline staff between flights You already trust them (as well as the pilots) every time with your flight.

pudgywalsh 2mo ago

Are these the same maintenance workers that have access to even more sensitive parts of the airplane like the avionics compartment and its miles of wiring? Wait until they find out your mechanic has unfettered access to your car's OBD port when you hand them the keys. They could install a COIN SIZED device on the CAN bus and you'd never know. Some people do this voluntarily in exchange for a discount on their insurance. There's literally millions of people driving newfangled EVs where the car manufacturer has full remote access to their vehicle and can upload software however and whenever they like. I forgot only the nefarious ones wear yellow reflective vests and earmuffs.

b112 2mo ago
There's literally millions of people driving newfangled EVs where the car manufacturer has full remote access to their vehicle and can upload software however and whenever they like. This part has been beyond baffling to me. The last thing I want, is to hit the brakes in my car, and suddenly they're less/more sensitive, due to an update the night before, and it really does matter especially on snow/ice. And such updates happen. I also don't want a perfectly good, 100% working car to suddenly degrade in experience because "Wups! Sorry! Last update broke <whatever>, we'll update within the month to fix!". It's just pure, unbridled dumb. I recently bought a car, and the dealer tried to sell me an extended warranty. What? It's under a full warranty right now, and yes, my region has very strong warranty and anti-lemon laws. But my point is, they kept saying "there's a lot of complex and expensive electronics in this car, you're going to need an extended warranty". Um, what? Hello? You just explained that the car breaks down a lot because it's complex? So complex that there are more frequent, highly expensive issues? How is that a plus? If a car is "too complex" to roll out the assembly line, without needing updates to modules on a monthly basis for years, it's the opposite of positive. I've had multiple BCM(body control module) updates, updates to every single module in the car. There shouldn't be enough code to cause issues here, it should be simple, simple, simple. But it's not. It's complex and difficult to make bug free. And that makes me oh so very comfortable as I drive down the road.
- _puk 2mo ago
  But you bought the car
- matherial 2mo ago
  > This part has been beyond baffling to me. The last thing I want Most people don't think about it when buying a car, or they have no practical way to evaluate it. So it is one of these things you probably need to fix with legislation, except the legislators love the idea too because sensor-rich, always-online cars give them more tools to police the society. I don't really know what to do with that, short of going neo-Luddite. People often see the excesses of ad tech as a failure of capitalism, but in a sense, we're seeing a tech-driven failure mode for free, democratic societies. In a world where your online presence is tied to your identity and always under the watchful eye of a large language model, and where you can't move from A to B without leaving a digital trail, it's not gonna be fun if you become a thorn in the government's side.
- forestry 2mo ago
  You also aren’t given a choice. If you decline, “don’t drive it”. Well, I want the car, not the connection. I could probably pull the sim I suppose.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    You really think a car dealer is going to let you just walk away over some trivial thing instead of fixing it for you?
    - Nextgrid 2mo ago
      Depends how "trivial" is the fix. Are they going to get the workshop to pull out the telematics module? Otherwise the car is still connected and very likely broadcasting telemetry anyway (and the "account" part is handled entirely on the backend). Refusing to set up or use the app is merely a placebo.
- glimshe 2mo ago
  Last time I bought a car the dealer couldn't enable the Internet features because I said my phone was broken. He looked at me puzzled but I said I could buy the car some other day if that was a problem... A dealer will never let a buying customer leave, so 3 years later my car still can't connect to the Internet.
bri3d 2mo ago
> Wait until they find out your mechanic has unfettered access to your car's OBD port when you hand them the keys Surprise! “They” did find this out and UN155/156 regulate a bunch of protections against local “attackers,” often to the detriment of right to repair.

altmanaltman 2mo ago

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/06/avalon-airport-melbourne-man-detained-alleged-firearm-gun-ntwnfb https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/06/avalon-airp... That trust was what led to this incident where someone just walked into the airplane dressed as a maintainence worker and nobody stopped him. Also pilot suicide isn't something new and the aviation world has tried to come up with several regulations to ensure it doesn't happen even though we completely trust pilots on a normalative basis.

pudgywalsh 2mo ago
You conveniently left out the part where he walked through a hole in the airport fence. Airfields are expected to be secure areas. If you can walk through a hole in a fence there's issues. Remember a guy stole an entire airplane a few years ago (RIP Sky King). Airplanes don't have ignition keys.
- markdown 2mo ago
  Is that the legend who managed to do a loop-the-loop?
  - pudgywalsh 2mo ago
    You know it is.
- altmanaltman 2mo ago
  I shared the link to the entire article so not sure how I left that out. And yes, there was a hole in the airport fence but he got so far because people trust these workers but that can be abused. And in that case (sky king), the guy was actually a maintainence worker who stole the plane. So just saying its okay to be vulnerable just because we trust all actors around the vulnerability, especially when its as easy as a freaking hole to abuse that trust is not a strong argument. RIP Sky King.
- kotaKat 2mo ago
  The only subset I've seen with keys are old single-prop Cessnas (makes sense) but every old codger just leaves their keys in the plane anyways. Sooooooome private jets actually bother to slap a Medeco on the external doors, at least, but that's still the only control keeping you grounded.

Nextgrid 2mo ago

With the low pay and ever-worsening working conditions, I'd be more worried about oversights/negligence than intentional sabotage (which sometimes happens all the way at manufacturing stage - see the Boeing door incident). Unfortunately, that is unlikely to get media coverage because the solution would be to respect and pay workers more, a severe crime in a late-stage capitalistic society.

gryfft 2mo ago
> the solution would be to respect and pay workers more Not to worry, they're furiously working on an alternative which will ensure no worker must ever be respected or paid ever again!
userbinator 2mo ago
because the solution would be to respect and pay workers more, They're already quite well-paid (and so are pilots). In fact the operating margins of airlines are infamously thin, so unless you want plane tickets to be several times their current price, it won't work.