3 ms·

It’s not a tangent. It’s the simple truth. American criminals often wear ankle bracelets as a condition of their release from prison, and that’s not racist. But

by db48x 2mo ago

It’s not a tangent. It’s the simple truth. American criminals often wear ankle bracelets as a condition of their release from prison, and that’s not racist. But suddenly because we require it of illegal immigrants, it is racist? Nonsense. If they were told that TPS protected them from deportation then they were lied to. All TPS does is pause enforcement. Once it ends their immigration cases are not paused any more. Their cases simply proceed from wherever they left off. Most illegal immigrants apply for asylum when they get caught but don’t actually qualify for it, so they’ll be deported. This isn’t racist, it’s just the reality of how our immigration laws work.

ozlikethewizard 2mo ago
[dead]
Sjeiti 2mo ago
İ cannot believe you are ratiolising this. Refugees are not the same as criminals. İ agree it is not racist, but this is a violation of human rights. Slowly but surely rights of people in the US are being chipped away, like boiling frogs.
- db48x 2mo ago
  They are both groups with a high likelihood of skipping town instead of showing up for sentencing. And most of them were never refugees. They were economic migrants who were already in the country illegally when Haiti had an earthquake.
  - hn_acker 2mo ago
    > They are both groups with a high likelihood of skipping town instead of showing up for sentencing. Could you clarify how broadly you define both "groups" and provide a source demonstrating that either has a high likelihood of skipping sentencing, or even just regarding Haitians in Springfield? As far as I know, most Haitians in Springfield have attended immigration-related or -adjacent hearings and sentencing whenever required of them. > And most of them were never refugees. They were economic migrants who were already in the country illegally when Haiti had an earthquake. This is false on all counts. Most Haitians in the US (not just in Springfield) fled political crises or violence [1]. Most Haitians in Springfield entered the US legally under programs such as Humanitarian Parole and have been staying in the US legally for every second since then [2], whether or not their continued stay relied on TPS, until the federal government revoked TPS without following the federal government's own procedures. [1] https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/social-sciences-and-humanities/haitians-and-haitian-refugees https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/social-sciences-and-... [2] https://springfieldohio.gov/immigration-faqs/ https://springfieldohio.gov/immigration-faqs/
netsharc 2mo ago
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, and I'll throw them into cages and put ankle bracelets on them
- db48x 2mo ago
  If you’d like to go tell Bill Clinton that the bill he championed and signed into law in 1991 is racist then be my guest. That was the last time our immigration laws were amended. The immigration model we use in the US is that immigrants must ask permission to immigrate first, only arrive after receiving that permission, and not overstay their visa. Anyone who does otherwise is an illegal immigrant. If you don’t like that then ask your congress–critter to propose a bill amending the law.
  - hn_acker 2mo ago
    > If you’d like to go tell Bill Clinton that the bill he championed and signed into law in 1991 is racist then be my guest. That was the last time our immigration laws were amended. This is an irrelevant strawman. Whether or not the last legislative modification to our immigration system was racist has nothing to do with whether the system as a whole continues to be enforced with racist motivations veiled by pretext or enforced in a racist manner. > The immigration model we use in the US is that immigrants must ask permission to immigrate first, only arrive after receiving that permission, and not overstay their visa. Anyone who does otherwise is an illegal immigrant. If you don’t like that then ask your congress–critter to propose a bill amending the law. Your immigration model is a model of a model. You are leaving crucial details out. Haitians in Springfield did ask for permission [1], did enter legally, and have been staying legally until the federal government revoked TPS without following its own procedures. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49334145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49334145
nunez 2mo ago
When the first comparison that you make to this Haitian refugee situation is "criminals wear ankle bracelets too!", then, yeah, people are going to throw the racism card. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it does feel like an unconscious bias. They weren't lied to. The US Government AND Springfield, OH explicitly and proudly accepted these Haitians into the US during a very difficult time in their country. The Biden Administration specifically encouraged this. [^0] There are lots of refugees in the US from everywhere in the world. That the ankle bracelet ATD (alternative to detention) is SPECIFICALLY targeted at the same group of refugees that were accused of eating dogs during the last re-election is what makes this problematic... [^0] https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/19/us/springfield-ohio-haitians-immigration-cec https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/19/us/springfield-ohio-haitians-... [^1]: https://apnews.com/dfcdc6302e154753a526c04706df45d6 https://apnews.com/dfcdc6302e154753a526c04706df45d6
rho138 2mo ago
[flagged]

by db48x 2mo ago

ozlikethewizard 2mo ago

[dead]

Sjeiti 2mo ago

İ cannot believe you are ratiolising this. Refugees are not the same as criminals. İ agree it is not racist, but this is a violation of human rights. Slowly but surely rights of people in the US are being chipped away, like boiling frogs.

db48x 2mo ago
They are both groups with a high likelihood of skipping town instead of showing up for sentencing. And most of them were never refugees. They were economic migrants who were already in the country illegally when Haiti had an earthquake.
- hn_acker 2mo ago
  > They are both groups with a high likelihood of skipping town instead of showing up for sentencing. Could you clarify how broadly you define both "groups" and provide a source demonstrating that either has a high likelihood of skipping sentencing, or even just regarding Haitians in Springfield? As far as I know, most Haitians in Springfield have attended immigration-related or -adjacent hearings and sentencing whenever required of them. > And most of them were never refugees. They were economic migrants who were already in the country illegally when Haiti had an earthquake. This is false on all counts. Most Haitians in the US (not just in Springfield) fled political crises or violence [1]. Most Haitians in Springfield entered the US legally under programs such as Humanitarian Parole and have been staying in the US legally for every second since then [2], whether or not their continued stay relied on TPS, until the federal government revoked TPS without following the federal government's own procedures. [1] https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/social-sciences-and-humanities/haitians-and-haitian-refugees https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/social-sciences-and-... [2] https://springfieldohio.gov/immigration-faqs/ https://springfieldohio.gov/immigration-faqs/

netsharc 2mo ago

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, and I'll throw them into cages and put ankle bracelets on them

db48x 2mo ago
If you’d like to go tell Bill Clinton that the bill he championed and signed into law in 1991 is racist then be my guest. That was the last time our immigration laws were amended. The immigration model we use in the US is that immigrants must ask permission to immigrate first, only arrive after receiving that permission, and not overstay their visa. Anyone who does otherwise is an illegal immigrant. If you don’t like that then ask your congress–critter to propose a bill amending the law.
- hn_acker 2mo ago
  > If you’d like to go tell Bill Clinton that the bill he championed and signed into law in 1991 is racist then be my guest. That was the last time our immigration laws were amended. This is an irrelevant strawman. Whether or not the last legislative modification to our immigration system was racist has nothing to do with whether the system as a whole continues to be enforced with racist motivations veiled by pretext or enforced in a racist manner. > The immigration model we use in the US is that immigrants must ask permission to immigrate first, only arrive after receiving that permission, and not overstay their visa. Anyone who does otherwise is an illegal immigrant. If you don’t like that then ask your congress–critter to propose a bill amending the law. Your immigration model is a model of a model. You are leaving crucial details out. Haitians in Springfield did ask for permission [1], did enter legally, and have been staying legally until the federal government revoked TPS without following its own procedures. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49334145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49334145

nunez 2mo ago

When the first comparison that you make to this Haitian refugee situation is "criminals wear ankle bracelets too!", then, yeah, people are going to throw the racism card. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it does feel like an unconscious bias. They weren't lied to. The US Government AND Springfield, OH explicitly and proudly accepted these Haitians into the US during a very difficult time in their country. The Biden Administration specifically encouraged this. [^0] There are lots of refugees in the US from everywhere in the world. That the ankle bracelet ATD (alternative to detention) is SPECIFICALLY targeted at the same group of refugees that were accused of eating dogs during the last re-election is what makes this problematic... [^0] https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/19/us/springfield-ohio-haitians-immigration-cec https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/19/us/springfield-ohio-haitians-... [^1]: https://apnews.com/dfcdc6302e154753a526c04706df45d6 https://apnews.com/dfcdc6302e154753a526c04706df45d6

rho138 2mo ago

[flagged]