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It's very easy for us to look at others and identify their behaviour as stupid. I've always tried to assess it as all people are domain stupid, just like all pe

by casca 14y ago

It's very easy for us to look at others and identify their behaviour as stupid. I've always tried to assess it as all people are domain stupid, just like all people are domain smart. By this I mean that everyone has their area (or domain) of expertise and of ignorance. For example, I'd suspect that the majority reading this cannot change the brakes on their car? Perhaps a similar proportion of mechanics can code C++. Looking at the example in the post - people buying a limited edition $400 Starbucks card for $450: Starbucks is far more than a coffee vendor to those who shop there regularly. When you spend money on things, you become overly attached to those things. As Starbucks overtly sells consumables, there is some dissonance to attachment without a physical manifestation. So with the limited edition gift card, I am able to focus my attachment on a physical object. The additional genius of this move was to make the card $450. They could have also made a $25 card with $20 credit but the high price of both the card and the premium meant that people felt that it was a better representation of their attachment to Starbucks.

mikeash 14y ago
It seems odd. Most of us have probably spent $50 on similar things. It's not really any different from buying a Star Wars poster or a TMNT action figure or whatever your cultural enjoyment is. I bet that if they got rid of the gift card aspect of it and just charged $50 for swag, many fewer people would call it stupid. I think it comes down to an inability to distinguish multiple functions. People see that it's a gift card, and that people are overpaying for that function, and so they conclude "stupid". But there's more to it that they either don't see or aren't paying attention to. When pointed out, many people will double down and say that spending $50 for Starbucks swag is "stupid". These same people probably spend similar amounts of money on swag for things they like, so at this point they can be safely ignored. People's opinions have inertia that's hard to modify with something as trivial as facts.
- wmil 14y ago
  The card isn't just a collectable. You use it every time you go to Starbucks. So it also sends a signal. I don't exactly know what message people are trying to send. Many of them may be trying to impress cute baristas by being a big spender.
- andrewflnr 14y ago
  These same people probably spend similar amounts of money on swag for things they like Actually, some of us just really think swag is silly. Be very careful with how you make and apply statements like that. In particular be careful of assuming the particular person you're arguing with thinks like that.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    You saw the "probably", right? And do you really own no posters or branded decorations of any kind? I mean, that's conceivable, but definitely not usual.
    - andrewflnr 14y ago
      Yes I saw the probably. My point was that it's easy to turn "probably" into an excuse for dismissing someone. While I have a few branded shirts, those were given to me, and I don't have any posters, nothing bought for the swag value that I can think of. I wear plain shirts whenever possible. People call me "boring".
rdtsc 14y ago
> Starbucks is far more than a coffee vendor You hit the nail on the head. They describe themselves as a 'third place'. The first two are work and home. Starbucks is a third place right after that where people meet, work, relax, spent time. It is not a simple coffee shop. For every person who ridicules it for all the stores being the same and selling the same burnt coffee there are 100s who love going to Starbucks and enjoying a more or less of a consistent experience. After a while it is also a place where memories are made for those people. Like people attached to the homes they live in and they remember "ah here I burnt my first steak after we were married" a lot of people will probably have similar memories of Starbucks "here we came on our first date", "here I met my biggest client for coffee and it turned my business around". It was interesting that even in the economic downturn their stock didn't suffer too much. People still want to get out and go to this "third place" even in bad times (I am saying this because I sure thought they would lose quite a bit of business, as what kind of people would keep paying $4 for coffee when jobless rate is at 15% for example, I was wrong).
- lostlogin 14y ago
  I was and still am mystified at the Starbucks business here in New Zealand. The chain doesn't seem to be doing great (link below). However whenever I go past their store in K-road it looks very busy. Yet it is near some great independent coffee stores. I'd argue that some of the competition nearby is world leading. Theatre cafe for example. It is within a stones throw and its owner, Chris Priestly, is the former owner of Atomic coffee - a New Zealand coffee institution. The independent cafes and very small chains here are amazing, yet people still go to Starbucks. I know I'm missing something, because those people who go there see something I don't. http://nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10836272 http://nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&o...
  - robryan 14y ago
    Many probably don't know, others probably don't care. Just like beers and wines, many people probably don't have a very advanced coffee pallet and are perfectly happy with what Starbucks is serving and some may just prefer it.
AndrewKemendo 14y ago
There is a massive difference between domain specification based on comparative advantage and economically irrational behavior, so let's not give too much validity to these decisions even if we are speaking about subjective decisions. It could be claimed that the "effect" that they get from the purchase or the cachet that comes from owning this Veblen good outweighs the $50 in marginal cost. I would argue however that it remains irrational, but well within the range of irrational behaviors that humans exhibit more or less constantly.

by casca 14y ago

mikeash 14y ago

It seems odd. Most of us have probably spent $50 on similar things. It's not really any different from buying a Star Wars poster or a TMNT action figure or whatever your cultural enjoyment is. I bet that if they got rid of the gift card aspect of it and just charged $50 for swag, many fewer people would call it stupid. I think it comes down to an inability to distinguish multiple functions. People see that it's a gift card, and that people are overpaying for that function, and so they conclude "stupid". But there's more to it that they either don't see or aren't paying attention to. When pointed out, many people will double down and say that spending $50 for Starbucks swag is "stupid". These same people probably spend similar amounts of money on swag for things they like, so at this point they can be safely ignored. People's opinions have inertia that's hard to modify with something as trivial as facts.

wmil 14y ago
The card isn't just a collectable. You use it every time you go to Starbucks. So it also sends a signal. I don't exactly know what message people are trying to send. Many of them may be trying to impress cute baristas by being a big spender.
andrewflnr 14y ago
These same people probably spend similar amounts of money on swag for things they like Actually, some of us just really think swag is silly. Be very careful with how you make and apply statements like that. In particular be careful of assuming the particular person you're arguing with thinks like that.
- mikeash 14y ago
  You saw the "probably", right? And do you really own no posters or branded decorations of any kind? I mean, that's conceivable, but definitely not usual.
  - andrewflnr 14y ago
    Yes I saw the probably. My point was that it's easy to turn "probably" into an excuse for dismissing someone. While I have a few branded shirts, those were given to me, and I don't have any posters, nothing bought for the swag value that I can think of. I wear plain shirts whenever possible. People call me "boring".

rdtsc 14y ago

> Starbucks is far more than a coffee vendor You hit the nail on the head. They describe themselves as a 'third place'. The first two are work and home. Starbucks is a third place right after that where people meet, work, relax, spent time. It is not a simple coffee shop. For every person who ridicules it for all the stores being the same and selling the same burnt coffee there are 100s who love going to Starbucks and enjoying a more or less of a consistent experience. After a while it is also a place where memories are made for those people. Like people attached to the homes they live in and they remember "ah here I burnt my first steak after we were married" a lot of people will probably have similar memories of Starbucks "here we came on our first date", "here I met my biggest client for coffee and it turned my business around". It was interesting that even in the economic downturn their stock didn't suffer too much. People still want to get out and go to this "third place" even in bad times (I am saying this because I sure thought they would lose quite a bit of business, as what kind of people would keep paying $4 for coffee when jobless rate is at 15% for example, I was wrong).

lostlogin 14y ago
I was and still am mystified at the Starbucks business here in New Zealand. The chain doesn't seem to be doing great (link below). However whenever I go past their store in K-road it looks very busy. Yet it is near some great independent coffee stores. I'd argue that some of the competition nearby is world leading. Theatre cafe for example. It is within a stones throw and its owner, Chris Priestly, is the former owner of Atomic coffee - a New Zealand coffee institution. The independent cafes and very small chains here are amazing, yet people still go to Starbucks. I know I'm missing something, because those people who go there see something I don't. http://nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10836272 http://nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&o...
- robryan 14y ago
  Many probably don't know, others probably don't care. Just like beers and wines, many people probably don't have a very advanced coffee pallet and are perfectly happy with what Starbucks is serving and some may just prefer it.

AndrewKemendo 14y ago

There is a massive difference between domain specification based on comparative advantage and economically irrational behavior, so let's not give too much validity to these decisions even if we are speaking about subjective decisions. It could be claimed that the "effect" that they get from the purchase or the cachet that comes from owning this Veblen good outweighs the $50 in marginal cost. I would argue however that it remains irrational, but well within the range of irrational behaviors that humans exhibit more or less constantly.