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If only they focused on making Firefox the definitive good browser instead of a platform for their AI efforts. Firefox will never convince people to leave chro

If only they focused on making Firefox the definitive good browser instead of a platform for their AI efforts. Firefox will never convince people to leave chrome on philosophy alone. I detest Chrome with a passion and refuse to touch it with a ten-foot pole, but cannot in good faith recommend Firefox to anyone in today’s world. “It kinda works” is about as far a compliment you can give it.

jasonpeacock 2mo ago
What doesn’t work? It’s my daily driver and it renders every website I visit.
kulahan 2mo ago
What do you think doesn’t work on Firefox? Aside from Google products purposely crippled, everything works just fine in my experience. It’s fast and stable. If there’s a bunch of AI stuff in it, I’ve not seen it. Of course I believe it exists, I just don’t ever read popups anyways. To be fair, I probably use 5% of the browser’s capability (I imagine many are like me). I browse websites and I have UBO installed.
- BeetleB 2mo ago
  In the last few months, I've seen a huge upsurge of sites that simply won't work for me in Firefox. Not sure if it's the FF + Linux combination. Should probably try with a fresh profile to confirm. It sucks, but I'm in on FF all the way. If much of the web stops working for me, it just means I have more time on my hands!
  - Silhouette 2mo ago
    Anecdotally my own experience is consistent with this with the same platform+browser combination. It appears that there are now significant numbers of sites - or at least noticeable parts or features of sites - that rely on Google-specific APIs and haven't been tested on other browsers. However visiting those sites from Apple devices is often similarly frustrating. I'm not sure this is an anti-Firefox thing. It seems more of a not realising there are other browsers apart from Chromium-based ones thing.
    - deweywsu 2mo ago
      I kinda wondered myself if this was some kind of coordinated effort to make Firefox not work. It wouldn't surprise me if it was later discovered that Google paid some Linux subsystem maintainer to slip in some nefarious code somewhere that altered the way Linux implements rendering specifications ever so slightly such that Firefox appeared broken. Just the conspiracy theorist in me.
  - kevin_thibedeau 2mo ago
    You can change your UA and add Sec-CH-UA to match Chromium if you want to avoid the (non-ADA compliant) browser bias.
  - Izkata 2mo ago
    Slack "huddles" (video chat) work on everything except Firefox+Linux. Haven't tried changing my user agent yet, only just got onto Slack for work.
    - cwel 2mo ago
      This one is specifically Linux (Wayland). if you set your user agent to Macintosh it will work; or at least it did a few months ago when I came across this. I've since resigned to using the electron bundle. Google meet, Discord, Zoom all handle Mozilla/Linux. Slack hasn't figured it out yet.
  - nickthegreek 2mo ago
    name any of them?
cadamsdotcom 2mo ago
"It kinda works" is factually incorrect. I have used Firefox exclusively every day on macOS for the past year, several hours a day, and have not one single time had to open another browser. None of the customers of my B2B saas use Firefox. Not once have I needed to test in their browsers except quick smoke testing to prove to myself that the rendering and details are identical. All my other browsing is indistinguishable from before when I used Chrome, and from on mobile where I (tragically) am forced by Apple's monopoly to use Safari. Do you have evidence to support your false claim?
- jjav 2mo ago
  Agreed, I can't understand where these experiences come from. I only ever use Firefox, at work, at home, mobile. Since forever, as long as there has been a Firefox (and Mozilla before that, Netscape prior). There was one time about 8-10 years ago that I encountered a site that didn't work in Firefox, was some weird proprietary training module at work. So yes, I did encounter one site that didn't work in Firefox in the last ~20 years. One.
  - sensanaty 2mo ago
    I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if it was Google astroturfing every single thread relating to FF. Yes, Mozilla isn't perfect and had some questionable decisions, but we're somehow okay with the worse option out of the two? Somehow, Mozilla's decisions are enough to never use FF, but Google's infinitely many horrible ones are acceptable for.... What reason?
    - Capricorn2481 2mo ago
      > Somehow, Mozilla's decisions are enough to never use FF, but Google's infinitely many horrible ones are acceptable for.... What reason? I think these people are real and predate AI. I think it comes down to a fundamental psychology in how the two browsers are marketed online. Firefox users would say "Firefox is better than Chrome." Chrome users would say "Chrome is good." Firefox is touted as a better browser on the principle of the freedom it gives its users, and paradoxically, that draws heavy scrutiny. I don't think I am doing a Goomba fallacy here. People that claim to care about privacy and browser freedom will express disgust with Mozilla then, in the same breath, say they are opting into Chrome out of spite, which is 100x worse.
rwz 2mo ago
I daily Zen (Firefox under the hood) and the only thing that I consistently need to open other browsers for is direct USB support (mouse/keyboard drivers in the browser). Other than that, I don't remember when was the last time something wasn't working in Firefox.

jasonpeacock 2mo ago

What doesn’t work? It’s my daily driver and it renders every website I visit.

kulahan 2mo ago

What do you think doesn’t work on Firefox? Aside from Google products purposely crippled, everything works just fine in my experience. It’s fast and stable. If there’s a bunch of AI stuff in it, I’ve not seen it. Of course I believe it exists, I just don’t ever read popups anyways. To be fair, I probably use 5% of the browser’s capability (I imagine many are like me). I browse websites and I have UBO installed.

BeetleB 2mo ago
In the last few months, I've seen a huge upsurge of sites that simply won't work for me in Firefox. Not sure if it's the FF + Linux combination. Should probably try with a fresh profile to confirm. It sucks, but I'm in on FF all the way. If much of the web stops working for me, it just means I have more time on my hands!
- Silhouette 2mo ago
  Anecdotally my own experience is consistent with this with the same platform+browser combination. It appears that there are now significant numbers of sites - or at least noticeable parts or features of sites - that rely on Google-specific APIs and haven't been tested on other browsers. However visiting those sites from Apple devices is often similarly frustrating. I'm not sure this is an anti-Firefox thing. It seems more of a not realising there are other browsers apart from Chromium-based ones thing.
  - deweywsu 2mo ago
    I kinda wondered myself if this was some kind of coordinated effort to make Firefox not work. It wouldn't surprise me if it was later discovered that Google paid some Linux subsystem maintainer to slip in some nefarious code somewhere that altered the way Linux implements rendering specifications ever so slightly such that Firefox appeared broken. Just the conspiracy theorist in me.
- kevin_thibedeau 2mo ago
  You can change your UA and add Sec-CH-UA to match Chromium if you want to avoid the (non-ADA compliant) browser bias.
- Izkata 2mo ago
  Slack "huddles" (video chat) work on everything except Firefox+Linux. Haven't tried changing my user agent yet, only just got onto Slack for work.
  - cwel 2mo ago
    This one is specifically Linux (Wayland). if you set your user agent to Macintosh it will work; or at least it did a few months ago when I came across this. I've since resigned to using the electron bundle. Google meet, Discord, Zoom all handle Mozilla/Linux. Slack hasn't figured it out yet.
- nickthegreek 2mo ago
  name any of them?

cadamsdotcom 2mo ago

"It kinda works" is factually incorrect. I have used Firefox exclusively every day on macOS for the past year, several hours a day, and have not one single time had to open another browser. None of the customers of my B2B saas use Firefox. Not once have I needed to test in their browsers except quick smoke testing to prove to myself that the rendering and details are identical. All my other browsing is indistinguishable from before when I used Chrome, and from on mobile where I (tragically) am forced by Apple's monopoly to use Safari. Do you have evidence to support your false claim?

jjav 2mo ago
Agreed, I can't understand where these experiences come from. I only ever use Firefox, at work, at home, mobile. Since forever, as long as there has been a Firefox (and Mozilla before that, Netscape prior). There was one time about 8-10 years ago that I encountered a site that didn't work in Firefox, was some weird proprietary training module at work. So yes, I did encounter one site that didn't work in Firefox in the last ~20 years. One.
- sensanaty 2mo ago
  I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if it was Google astroturfing every single thread relating to FF. Yes, Mozilla isn't perfect and had some questionable decisions, but we're somehow okay with the worse option out of the two? Somehow, Mozilla's decisions are enough to never use FF, but Google's infinitely many horrible ones are acceptable for.... What reason?
  - Capricorn2481 2mo ago
    > Somehow, Mozilla's decisions are enough to never use FF, but Google's infinitely many horrible ones are acceptable for.... What reason? I think these people are real and predate AI. I think it comes down to a fundamental psychology in how the two browsers are marketed online. Firefox users would say "Firefox is better than Chrome." Chrome users would say "Chrome is good." Firefox is touted as a better browser on the principle of the freedom it gives its users, and paradoxically, that draws heavy scrutiny. I don't think I am doing a Goomba fallacy here. People that claim to care about privacy and browser freedom will express disgust with Mozilla then, in the same breath, say they are opting into Chrome out of spite, which is 100x worse.

rwz 2mo ago

I daily Zen (Firefox under the hood) and the only thing that I consistently need to open other browsers for is direct USB support (mouse/keyboard drivers in the browser). Other than that, I don't remember when was the last time something wasn't working in Firefox.