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> Very, very few games roll their own Except a ton of successful indie games, including some of the best of all time: Minecraft, Braid, the Witness, Dwarf For

> Very, very few games roll their own Except a ton of successful indie games, including some of the best of all time: Minecraft, Braid, the Witness, Dwarf Fortress, Stardew Valley, Terraria, Fez, Animal Well, and probably a bunch I haven't heard of or forgot. Also most AAA studios and a lot of AA studios. Most game engines were also born out of a game. Source, Unreal, IDTech all were games first, then the engine was extracted.

satvikpendem 2mo ago
Isn't this survivorship bias? How many were successful in contrast that just used an off the shelf engine? Regarding Source, Unreal, etc, that was back in the day when making an engine was much easier than today, due to lower player and graphics demands, which they then iterated on.
- dismalaf 2mo ago
  > How many were successful in contrast that just used an off the shelf engine? Yeah there's successful games that used an off the shelf engine but saying very few roll there own is plainly wrong when a bunch have. And that's without mentioning the whole flash era...
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - nomel 2mo ago
    Around 18k indie games are released on steam per year. Around 300 of those are successful, making over $1 million [1]. VERY few of those successes are using custom engines. Your list is probably close to complete, being far less than 1%. [1] https://www.shanethegamer.com/research/indie-games-statistics/ https://www.shanethegamer.com/research/indie-games-statistic...
- embedding-shape 2mo ago
  > that was back in the day when making an engine was much easier than today I don't know specifically about how creating game engines was back in the day with lower level languages, but I can hardly imagine it was easier than today. I don't know of many things that are harder today than ~30 years ago when I first touched a computer, everything seemingly is getting easier and easier. Especially creating games, and for sure creating game engines. I'm not complaining, I'm loving the Cambrian explosion of games and especially indie games, but I do think we're seeing more and more games and game engines being made because it is easier today, not harder.
  - satvikpendem 2mo ago
    The demands for cutting edge graphics was lower back then hence there was less work to implement many features.
adastra22 2mo ago
There is a valuable point in what you are saying, but I don't think it is as strong as you are making it. Game engines do have a certain 'style' that is recognizable, especially if you use default settings and cookie cutter stuff from the asset store. The most successful indie games often have their own unique aesthetic, and rolling their own game engine, while not strictly necessary, does make that uniqueness the default outcome rather than something you have to strive hard to achieve. But most indie games do not roll their own engine. Even this widely shared post aiming to show off games with custom engines, ends up listing a ton of games with notes like "OGRE-based" or "MonoGame-based." I'm sorry, but that's not a custom engine. That's an atypical engine choice (OGRE or MonoGame) with tweaks. Maybe I'm being a pedant, but I think the difference matters. https://gist.github.com/raysan5/909dc6cf33ed40223eb0dfe625c0de74 https://gist.github.com/raysan5/909dc6cf33ed40223eb0dfe625c0... Unfortunately I don't think there are good numbers on how many truly original / custom / no-engine games are out there, in absolute or market terms. 13% is the ceiling, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was much smaller (e.g. <5%).
- dismalaf 2mo ago
  > "OGRE-based" or "MonoGame-based." You compared a full-on 3D renderer to something that's basically the same as SDL or Raylib. Ogre could be considered a game engine but XNA/Monogame definitely isn't (nor is SDL or Raylib). > But most indie games do not roll their own engine. Most indie games are slop that are barely more than a template with pre-purchased assets and sell zero copies. There's no point talking about most of something when 99% gets thrown straight into the garbage. > The most successful indie games often have their own unique aesthetic, and rolling their own game engine, while not strictly necessary, does make that uniqueness the default outcome rather than something you have to strive hard to achieve. Yup and that's the point. Code is art as much as art is art. Sure, you can get a basic game made in a couple hours with Godot, but what's the value or uniqueness when anyone can do the same?
  - hansvm 2mo ago
    > most are slop Is there any chance they meant most "real" indie games? If they did, does the observation about chances of rolling one's own engine change?
ColdStream 2mo ago
It really depends on your needs I guess. Not to undermine them in any fashion but If you just need some generic features and get something out quick, a pre-built engine can take a lot of the head ache out of it. I'm thinking stuff like last years 'Skate Story', built by one guy over a few years and it looks great, all done in Unity. If they were building their own engine it probably would still be another few years back and probably for not much gain. But then things like Fez as you mentioned, back in 2012 when it came out, it would have been a real struggle to put together with off the shelf engines. I could see it being much easier now but still a product of its time. One studio I am endlessly impressed with is Enhance games. Tetris Effect (UE4),Rez Infinite (UE4), Humanity (Unity) and Lumines Arise (Unity). When you fire them up, you would be really hard pressed to know what engine they are running as they have made the end results so unique that the base engines traits are almost completely gone. That is a real talent. But if you have some unique tech that just needs to see the light of day or a work p=flow that just doesn't fit what everyone else is providing, go with your own engine. There will never be a one size fits all.
- dismalaf 2mo ago
  > It really depends on your needs I guess. Not to undermine them in any fashion but If you just need some generic features and get something out quick, a pre-built engine can take a lot of the head ache out of it. I'm thinking stuff like last years 'Skate Story', built by one guy over a few years and it looks great, all done in Unity. If they were building their own engine it probably would still be another few years back and probably for not much gain. I'm not necessarily making any judgement about what someone should do. Rolling your own engine for a story based game is probably a bad use of time. But the idea that few successful indies have rolled their own is false. I agree - if you're just doing something that needs some assets placed, some interactions, rendering, some physics, use an off the shelf engine. But the idea that it's impossible or not worthwhile to roll your own is repeated too much.
rsalus 2mo ago
Well, to be pedantic, Stardew Valley + others used MonoGame which is technically a framework but realistically does a huge amount of the work needed to develop a game engine.
jayd16 2mo ago
Source is based on the Quake engine. A lot of those AAA games you're thinking probably are.
xboxnolifes 2mo ago
A lot of those games definitely get some of their unique game feel from their engine, but The Witness in particular is a type of game that really wouldn't need it in 2026. It's a product of both it's time and it's creator's unique strong feelings for programming languages, game engines, and game development.
- dismalaf 2mo ago
  Yeah it's kind of ironic that the Witness and his new Sokoban game don't really need custom technology.
psvv 2mo ago
I have a whole theory on this I call design innovation through technical innovation. If you want to do something no one has done artistically, it helps if you're also doing something no one has done technically. And novel designs stand out. It's no coincidence how many of those wildly successful games introduce totally new game designs, only made possible through their totally new game engines.
rcxdude 2mo ago
Factorio is a good example of a game that probably wouldn't exist in the form that it does without a custom engine.
Gooblebrai 2mo ago
> Except a ton of successful indie games, including some of the best of all time True. A lot of successful indie games are built in a custom engine. But that doesn't imply that all successful indie games need to be built on a custom engine or that someone is going to have more success by going the custom engine route. The best of all time is a bar quite high. Success is already a few rungs down the ladder.

satvikpendem 2mo ago

Isn't this survivorship bias? How many were successful in contrast that just used an off the shelf engine? Regarding Source, Unreal, etc, that was back in the day when making an engine was much easier than today, due to lower player and graphics demands, which they then iterated on.

dismalaf 2mo ago
> How many were successful in contrast that just used an off the shelf engine? Yeah there's successful games that used an off the shelf engine but saying very few roll there own is plainly wrong when a bunch have. And that's without mentioning the whole flash era...
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- nomel 2mo ago
  Around 18k indie games are released on steam per year. Around 300 of those are successful, making over $1 million [1]. VERY few of those successes are using custom engines. Your list is probably close to complete, being far less than 1%. [1] https://www.shanethegamer.com/research/indie-games-statistics/ https://www.shanethegamer.com/research/indie-games-statistic...
embedding-shape 2mo ago
> that was back in the day when making an engine was much easier than today I don't know specifically about how creating game engines was back in the day with lower level languages, but I can hardly imagine it was easier than today. I don't know of many things that are harder today than ~30 years ago when I first touched a computer, everything seemingly is getting easier and easier. Especially creating games, and for sure creating game engines. I'm not complaining, I'm loving the Cambrian explosion of games and especially indie games, but I do think we're seeing more and more games and game engines being made because it is easier today, not harder.
- satvikpendem 2mo ago
  The demands for cutting edge graphics was lower back then hence there was less work to implement many features.

adastra22 2mo ago

There is a valuable point in what you are saying, but I don't think it is as strong as you are making it. Game engines do have a certain 'style' that is recognizable, especially if you use default settings and cookie cutter stuff from the asset store. The most successful indie games often have their own unique aesthetic, and rolling their own game engine, while not strictly necessary, does make that uniqueness the default outcome rather than something you have to strive hard to achieve. But most indie games do not roll their own engine. Even this widely shared post aiming to show off games with custom engines, ends up listing a ton of games with notes like "OGRE-based" or "MonoGame-based." I'm sorry, but that's not a custom engine. That's an atypical engine choice (OGRE or MonoGame) with tweaks. Maybe I'm being a pedant, but I think the difference matters. https://gist.github.com/raysan5/909dc6cf33ed40223eb0dfe625c0de74 https://gist.github.com/raysan5/909dc6cf33ed40223eb0dfe625c0... Unfortunately I don't think there are good numbers on how many truly original / custom / no-engine games are out there, in absolute or market terms. 13% is the ceiling, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was much smaller (e.g. <5%).

dismalaf 2mo ago
> "OGRE-based" or "MonoGame-based." You compared a full-on 3D renderer to something that's basically the same as SDL or Raylib. Ogre could be considered a game engine but XNA/Monogame definitely isn't (nor is SDL or Raylib). > But most indie games do not roll their own engine. Most indie games are slop that are barely more than a template with pre-purchased assets and sell zero copies. There's no point talking about most of something when 99% gets thrown straight into the garbage. > The most successful indie games often have their own unique aesthetic, and rolling their own game engine, while not strictly necessary, does make that uniqueness the default outcome rather than something you have to strive hard to achieve. Yup and that's the point. Code is art as much as art is art. Sure, you can get a basic game made in a couple hours with Godot, but what's the value or uniqueness when anyone can do the same?
- hansvm 2mo ago
  > most are slop Is there any chance they meant most "real" indie games? If they did, does the observation about chances of rolling one's own engine change?

ColdStream 2mo ago

It really depends on your needs I guess. Not to undermine them in any fashion but If you just need some generic features and get something out quick, a pre-built engine can take a lot of the head ache out of it. I'm thinking stuff like last years 'Skate Story', built by one guy over a few years and it looks great, all done in Unity. If they were building their own engine it probably would still be another few years back and probably for not much gain. But then things like Fez as you mentioned, back in 2012 when it came out, it would have been a real struggle to put together with off the shelf engines. I could see it being much easier now but still a product of its time. One studio I am endlessly impressed with is Enhance games. Tetris Effect (UE4),Rez Infinite (UE4), Humanity (Unity) and Lumines Arise (Unity). When you fire them up, you would be really hard pressed to know what engine they are running as they have made the end results so unique that the base engines traits are almost completely gone. That is a real talent. But if you have some unique tech that just needs to see the light of day or a work p=flow that just doesn't fit what everyone else is providing, go with your own engine. There will never be a one size fits all.

dismalaf 2mo ago
> It really depends on your needs I guess. Not to undermine them in any fashion but If you just need some generic features and get something out quick, a pre-built engine can take a lot of the head ache out of it. I'm thinking stuff like last years 'Skate Story', built by one guy over a few years and it looks great, all done in Unity. If they were building their own engine it probably would still be another few years back and probably for not much gain. I'm not necessarily making any judgement about what someone should do. Rolling your own engine for a story based game is probably a bad use of time. But the idea that few successful indies have rolled their own is false. I agree - if you're just doing something that needs some assets placed, some interactions, rendering, some physics, use an off the shelf engine. But the idea that it's impossible or not worthwhile to roll your own is repeated too much.

rsalus 2mo ago

Well, to be pedantic, Stardew Valley + others used MonoGame which is technically a framework but realistically does a huge amount of the work needed to develop a game engine.

jayd16 2mo ago

Source is based on the Quake engine. A lot of those AAA games you're thinking probably are.

xboxnolifes 2mo ago

A lot of those games definitely get some of their unique game feel from their engine, but The Witness in particular is a type of game that really wouldn't need it in 2026. It's a product of both it's time and it's creator's unique strong feelings for programming languages, game engines, and game development.

dismalaf 2mo ago
Yeah it's kind of ironic that the Witness and his new Sokoban game don't really need custom technology.

psvv 2mo ago

I have a whole theory on this I call design innovation through technical innovation. If you want to do something no one has done artistically, it helps if you're also doing something no one has done technically. And novel designs stand out. It's no coincidence how many of those wildly successful games introduce totally new game designs, only made possible through their totally new game engines.

rcxdude 2mo ago

Factorio is a good example of a game that probably wouldn't exist in the form that it does without a custom engine.

Gooblebrai 2mo ago

> Except a ton of successful indie games, including some of the best of all time True. A lot of successful indie games are built in a custom engine. But that doesn't imply that all successful indie games need to be built on a custom engine or that someone is going to have more success by going the custom engine route. The best of all time is a bar quite high. Success is already a few rungs down the ladder.