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Safari 4 beta released
- CalmQuiet 18y agoWho can complain about an (alleged) increase of javascript speed of 4x. Unfortunately, apparently still no support for plug-ins? And the vaguely suggested help for developers... marginal: "built-in web developer tools to debug, tweak and optimize a website for peak performance and compatibility"
- sc 18y agoThe built-in web developer is definitely on-par with Firebug and Web Developer. In some ways it's even nicer. As far as plug-ins go, Safari's had them for years. Apple just doesn't support them or advertise them.
- jws 18y agoFunny, the flash blocking plugin I use still works. http://github.com/rentzsch/clicktoflash/tree/master http://github.com/rentzsch/clicktoflash/tree/master
- dchest 18y agoIt works because it uses Safari's real plugin architecture, not input manager hacks.
- dchest 18y agoSee http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:olonKuXb1G4J:developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/InternetWeb/Conceptual/WebKit_PluginProgTopic/WebKit_PluginProgTopic.pdf+safari+plugin+architecture&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=safari#9 http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:olonKuXb1G4J:developer.a... "WebKit–Based Plug-ins" This is how ClickToFlash works.
- unalone 18y agoUnfortunately, apparently still no support for plug-ins? Safari has supported plugins since before I got my first Mac. I use Inquisitor for searching right now. Google SafariStand if you don't believe me. Mac users who want to block ads can get GlimmerBlocker, which blocks ads on every browser at once. If you want to customize Safari further, GreaseKit allows you to inject your own code into sites (it's Greasemonkey). Apple won't do anything further. In their mind a program should be designed with the right features in mind up front, and then everything else can be hacked for the people who really, really care. Most of the people who use Safari like that a lot. I do.
- dchest 18y agoThese are input manager hacks, they are not real plugins.
- unalone 18y agoMy point was that the big things I'd want a plugin for you can do. GlimmerBlocker is incredible. I don't want StumbleUpon. I don't want Snap Previews. I don't want del.icio.us or a music player plugin or whatever else plugins offer. I want a browser that lets me access the web as powerfully as possible. The only plugins I care about are the ones who make that more efficient.
- maximilian 18y agoI want delicious syncing. I like that in firefox on my linux box.
- unalone 18y agoI'm not a Delicious user - I've never seen the point to storing my bookmarks on a web site - so that's a feature I never missed.
- silvestrov 18y agoGlimmerBlocker supports injecting javascript and css, and it supports transforming the html (search-and-replace using javascript) before the html hits the browser.
- bonaldi 18y agoI've been using a lot of this in a developer preview for a while now, and the improvements over 3 are many, especially in the massively improved web inspector. The majority of the new things today are in the UI -- the tabs at the top, the top sites home screen -- and the majority of that is just Chrome done better. I'm surprised at how quickly they've aped Google, actually. Perhaps just to spite them for taking so goddamn long over Mac Chrome? To be honest, I'd rather they'd aped the process-per-tab thing more. Still missing: undo last tab close. Don't like the fixed "Add bookmark" button much, either.
- sc 18y agoThe Web Inspector is actually part of WebKit itself (the rendering engine). You can get any improvements that happen there and between the chrome (HTML, CSS, JavaScript) by downloading WebKit nightlies: http://nightly.webkit.org http://nightly.webkit.org This update is for Safari itself, which is the UI/chrome.
- icefox 18y agoAs it is part of WebKit it on Linux you can play with the inspector using Arora http://code.google.com/p/arora/wiki/Screenshots http://code.google.com/p/arora/wiki/Screenshots
- sant0sk1 18y agoI've been using the Web Inspector in WebKit nightlies for awhile now and it still doesn't measure up to FireBug. Even the simplest thing like changing CSS properties on the fly just don't work right in Web Inspector yet. I can't wait for it to catch up though so I can quit running 2 browsers simultaneously all the time!
- gruseom 18y agoI still like Firebug better too. Unfortunately its debugger has massive stability issues (at least on larger files). I can kind of get it to work if I talk really nicely to it. Not clear to me what the source of the problem really is, but the last few releases have been mostly bug fixes, and they seem to introduce as many bugs as they fix. That's a bad sign.
- bradgessler 18y agoDid they fix the bugs from 3.2.1 where Safari would forget your Facebook login and screw up logging into Gmail?
- tbeseda 18y agoYes. It was fixed nearly right away in Webkit nightlies.
- amichail 18y agoI can't log into gmail with Version 4 Public Beta (5528.16) on mac.
- amichail 18y agoYou need to disable offline mode for it to work.
- superchink 18y agoThanks for the advice. This issue made me uninstall it almost immediately. Maybe I'll give it a shot now.
- cpr 18y agoThat was fixed (without comment) in the recent Security Update for Leopard.
- mcav 18y agoI'll be interested to see how this compares to the Webkit nightly builds...
- GHFigs 18y agoIt is recent enough to support CSS explicit animations, one of the newest visible features added in WebKit. For example: http://webkit.org/blog-files/leaves/index.html http://webkit.org/blog-files/leaves/index.html
- hellweaver666 18y agoI'm really not liking the Chrome style 'tabs on top' my eyes are used to looking in one place for a tab and now it's somewhere else! I use Firefox as my primary browser and only use Safari as a dedicated browser for Google Reader - the difference in tabs is going to confuse me for quite some time I imagine.
- peregrine 18y agoBut when you get used to it you won't be able to go back.
- gry 18y agoI have a hunch this is a prelude to seeing it as a pervasive UI element in iLife and possibly as core UI element within Snow Leopard. It seems when different Apple teams introduce something, it trickles into other applications. Smart Playlists/Mailboxes, and brushed metal theme come to mind. It'd be fun to do a study to see how one application influenced others and possibly the OS.
- quantumhobbit 18y agoIt does take some getting used to, but I love the extra vertical space it leaves for showing content. It's only a few pixels but I'll take what I can get on the 13" MacBook.
- waratuman 18y agoI don't like the tabs on top either, I can't use them when browsing in full screen with mega zoomer.
- joshuaxls 18y agoI agree. I'm really irritated as well that when you click the any of the tabs while Safari is in the background, it will bring Safari to the foreground AND make that tab active. I primarily use the "title bar" area of my windows to switch around. This is a huge annoyance.
- callahad 18y agoGoodbye, native controls and window decorations. I'll miss you. http://i43.tinypic.com/2mk2uo.png http://i43.tinypic.com/2mk2uo.png
- unalone 18y agoSurprising that they skimped on XP. On Vista it looks excellent.
- jeroen 18y agoBetter, but not excellent. The min-max-close buttons look good, but the mouseover effect on the menubar is horrible, the input fields for url and search are non-standard. And why can I drag a tab when there is only one?
- Zev 18y agoIt might not be native, but it works really well. To be fair, Firefox has never used native controls. Not on Mac at least. So if thats your best comparison, there's not much to miss (from some peoples POV at least.)
- bonaldi 18y agoHow does it look in the Classic view? I'm curious how they fit all the widgetry into the smaller frame
- timcederman 18y ago
- evaneykelen 18y agoStill baffled by lack of proper auto completion for URLs based on the (HTML) title, e.g. typing 'hacker' into the address bar still does not offer me e.g. news.ycombinator.com even when this page has been loaded before, cached and stored in the history (btw: the new history search _does_ find URLs based on the title and other page content).
- unalone 18y agoIs that a huge complaint? I've always liked that I can just use the URL and have it autocomplete. (On Firefox, if I type "n" and hit enter it doesn't take me directly to news.ycombinator.com, and that always irritates me.)
- pmsaue0 18y agomine does ;) https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7423 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7423
- unalone 18y agoA few thoughts: 1) The Top Sites needs a way for me to manually add a site I want to add. It looks beautiful but right now I've got one site in my top list that I feel shouldn't be there, because I didn't like my #6 and cycled through far too long, looking in vain for the one I wanted. (EDIT: Fixed!) 2) The feel is incredibly Mac-like. This is what I've wanted Safari to be like all along. 3) People that run the browser in "anti-chrome" mode (remove the bookmarks bar and the URL bar and run all searches with CMD-L) will find this to be the best solution they've ever used. Now there's a single line, since even the tab bar is gone. Brilliant solution on Apple's part to the problem of eliminating chrome. Furthermore, there used to be a bug where the search bar wouldn't vanish if you used the Google search bar during CMD-L. That bug is gone, meaning there's no need for a workaround (though I still think having a shortcut for a javascript-prompt Google search is the best solution). 4) It's a little harder to drag the tab bars around: I like that they let you detach more simply, but rearranging will take a week's getting used to. 5) Using Zoom with multitouch is incredible - I love how that feels - but not quite perfect. It's too responsive. 6) Multiple tabs look great - I like the expanded view and the faded out text that appears. 7) Trying to open an old tab I keep trying to double click, which minimizes the window. Not quite optimal. 8) No spinning loader for the page I'm currently on? Frustrating.
- dchest 18y agoOn 1) You can (at least on Mac) — drag a site icon from address to Desktop, then open a new tab with Top Sites and drag the alias into it. (But be careful: I just did this, and can't remove the site from Top Sites :)
- jsdalton 18y agoThe one thing I always, always miss when I attempt to switch from Firefox to Safari is how Firefox automatically executes an I'm Feeling Lucky search from the address bar. It's an even better feature now that it searches my history/bookmarks first, allowing me to save the I'm Feeling Lucky step if I find a match first. Safari mimics the live search of bookmarks/history in Safari 4, but what happens if I don't find a match there? I'm left with the search term in my address bar, and now I have to jump over to the Google Search field, retype my query, execute it, and then mouse down to the search results to get where I'm going. Sigh. Of course, if Firefox didn't regularly take up 15-20% of my CPU resources after having it open for 10 minutes I wouldn't be trying out new browsers every 3 months!
- unalone 18y agoI liked the unified approach that Chrome used a lot. Safari's wonky solution (go to "[].com") is one of the few things I dislike about the browser. However, I don't often find a need to search for a query I type into my browser, since I most often use direct URLs for that.
- jsdalton 18y agoOnce you get used to using the address bar as a search field, it's addicting. Right now, for example, I'm working on a project in Django, so I'll type things like "django queryset" in my browser bar and it will pop me straight through to the documentation for it. Point being, I use it for more than just hitting the home page of a website.
- deleted 18y ago[deleted]
- unalone 18y agoTroll? Or did you just not see the link to the Safari 4 download/the screenshots being posted?
- anatoli 18y agoCool stuff, but I'm having a problem with the new Web Inspector... it seems to show the ungzipped file size for all files, rather than the gzipped one (which would be more useful).
- MikeCapone 18y agoI like it so far. The only thing that bugs me a little is that when you open a lot of tabs, it's a bit more cramped than before (and I'm always afraid of hitting the "close tab" button), and that to re-arrange tabs, you have to drag them by the corner (otherwise you move the whole window).
- kyro 18y agoSo, what's webymnd's take on this?
- amirnathoo 18y agoThere's a lot here that is the same as WebMynd's history functionality as we launched it last year. But now we're really focused on aggregating search sources on Google, and the history component and cover-flow visualization are only small elements of it.
- akirk 18y agoBest point for me: more screen space because what used to be the tab bar has been reduced to 0px. Worst point for me: Progress indicator is gone/almost invisible. I now have to check twice whether or not I properly clicked a link.
- akirk 18y agoYou can bring the process indicator back, as well as some other things, as I just found out at this blog post: http://swedishcampground.com/safari-4-hidden-preferences http://swedishcampground.com/safari-4-hidden-preferences
- karim 18y agoAccording to http://www.apple.com/safari/features.html http://www.apple.com/safari/features.html, "Enhanced Keyboard Navigation Thanks to the enhanced keyboard navigation options in Safari, you can navigate the web without a mouse. Press the Tab key, and Safari jumps to the next password field, pop-up menu, or input field." This is innovation !
- sarvesh 18y agoIt is pretty fast with respect javascript. Here are some results from my tests comparing it with Opera. OS X: It way fater on every test except for 3D Mesh Transformation. (Safari:http://dromaeo.com/?id=60726 http://dromaeo.com/?id=60726, Opera:http://dromaeo.com/?id=60727 http://dromaeo.com/?id=60727). Safari was slower to respond compared to Opera during the tests and did consume more memory. Windows XP: It way fater on every test except for 3D Mesh Transformation. (Safari:http://dromaeo.com/?id=60707 http://dromaeo.com/?id=60707, Opera:http://dromaeo.com/?id=60712 http://dromaeo.com/?id=60712). Safari wasn't responsive at all compared to Opera during the tests and did consume more memory. Looks like my favourite browser, Opera, needs new javascript engine.
- melvinram 18y agoMy google hosted email won't load with this.
- melvinram 18y agoTurns out it was because of Google Gears. I uninstalled Gears and it worked fine. If you have same issue, you can uninstall gears by running this command from your terminal (includ quotes): '/Library/Internet Plug-Ins/Gears.plugin/Contents/Resources/uninstall.command'
- aboodman 18y agoSorry about that. We are working on a build to fix this now.
- miguelpais 18y agoI don't know if this is just in the version 4, but it seems to me a major bug the fact that I'm not able to cycle through tabs when I'm on a page with an input text box selected, like in Google.com. Does anyone confirm this or is it just ignorance from my part?
- jgranby 18y agoIt still works for me. Are you just referring to keyboard shortcuts, or can you not cycle through using the menu bar either? If you're trying to use cmd-shift-arrows, it won't work when a text field has focus, because they're the keyboard shortcuts used for selecting from the cursor until/from the end/beginning of the line. This changed a while back. Best to use cmd-shift-[ and cmd-shift-] instead, or the crazy new ones described in the menu. I'm not sure what the situation is for Windows.
- miguelpais 18y agoYes, I am on the Mac (sorry for the lack of info of the last comment), and I was trying cmd+shift+arrows. And yes, control+tab works, although it stills not jumps directly to the next tab if, as an example, you're on google.com with the input box selected it will jump first to the adress bar... don't know why... but thanks. ;)
- GHFigs 18y agoInteresting that this release lacks the one notable feature of the Safari 4 Developer Preview. I wonder whether it's been cut entirely or simply cut from the beta release.
- superchink 18y agoWhich feature are you referring to?
- unalone 18y agoThe ability to save web sites as standalone applications.
- arthurk 18y agoHidden settings: http://pastie.textmate.org/398861 http://pastie.textmate.org/398861 (including blue progress bar and tab bar placing)
- chiffonade 18y agoYes, this is good. On first glance it seems like they also fixed some of the blocking i/o issues that caused beachballs in Safari 3 and earlier - I wouldn't be surprised if they vastly improved this, since the whole history indexing thing probably is fairly intensive with disk.
- donniefitz2 18y agoI do love how minimal it is. It seems to be running really well on Windows 7 too.
- alexyim 18y agoI like the location bar completion. It's a mixture of Safari/old Firefox's completion (+ faster speed) and the new Spotlight/FF3 style autocomplete. I think this is one example of good attention to detail on Apple's part.
- releasedatez 18y agoFor frontend web coder, here's yet another browser to test on.
- bkbleikamp 18y agoIt's WebKit...it passes Acid 3...what more do you want? If you write good markup and CSS, you should have no problem.