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Australia is now ready for vertical solar, add a few more hours of production in the morning and evening. Panels are dirt cheap anyway, use them as fences, put

Australia is now ready for vertical solar, add a few more hours of production in the morning and evening. Panels are dirt cheap anyway, use them as fences, put them on high rise buildings. Change the building to require structural elements to hold the panels and build new homes with vertical + rooftop. The electric code should be updated to allow v2g. With BESS (home, grid) and EVs (always plugged in, parked 95% of the time), there may be enough storage to start replacing baseload. This will take decades, but can be done. We gotta start somewhere.

epistasis 2mo ago
Given the durability of panels, it'd be fascinating to see roof redesigns, and some changes in panel packaging, that standard large rectangles become the basic components of a 30 year roof. Or as siding. I've seen them used vertically on the Southern walls of commercial buildings in Alaska, and they looked great.
- thelastgallon 2mo ago
  Absolutely. Energy has to be baked into every structural element. Either producing energy, or storing energy, or providing insulation, or acting as a transfer medium (heat pump).
- password4321 2mo ago
  Why don't they do this for cars?
  - epistasis 2mo ago
    I'd imagine the difference between flat and curved, in addition to very different wear patterns, and inability to get your desired color. Even slight changes in packaging to adapt the panels to a structural material might increase cost. But doing custom shapes to fit the panels of a car? Getting just the right shape? That's an entirely different manufacturing process nothing like what currently gets produced. The benefit on cars is also pretty small, at least whenever I've bothered to calculate it. Cars need a massive amount of energy compared to a house, and have far less surface area.
    - moepstar 2mo ago
      …which is also never in an ideal angle for production.. Sono Motors tried it and went under.. In theory, it sounds great and even obvious, but once you get into the details - not so much..
  - thelastgallon 2mo ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk6aTKV-des https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk6aTKV-des
red75prime 2mo ago
It requires large solar overcapacity to compensate for seasonal intermittency. Dedicated seasonal energy storage might be better economically.
- epistasis 2mo ago
  Solar overcapacity is really cheap, because panels are really cheap. Dedicated seasonal energy storage technology doesn't even exist right now, much less economically efficient storage technology. The closest thing would be a massive thermal store used for district heating, but only prototypes are starting right now. Industrial scaling and mass deployment? That's a decade+ away at a minimum. We could build seasonal overcapacity today, and it would be nearly economically competitive with existing fossil sources. It's hard to internalize just how cheap solar panels have become. Keeping the same inverter and grid connection, and doubling the panel capacity, nowhere near doubles the cost of the install.
  - thelastgallon 2mo ago
    Indeed. Solar overcapacity can be used to produce green hydrogen for industrial uses (high heat), green ammonia (fertilizer), etc. Ammonia has supply chains and is known quantity to ship and store. Could be used in fuel cells. Of course, the efficiency is low, but thats a necessary cost for seasonal storage. Australia has so much land. And sunny everywhere. I'm sure Europe will buy green ammonia or fertilizer to meet their carbon goals. And green mining/metals/refining using hydrogen.
    - epistasis 2mo ago
      I think we are headed to an era of energy abundance such that the question won't be "how can we use these MWh that would otherwise go to waste" but rather "how can we make sure that these electrolyzers for hydrogen are never idle." Meaning that the capital cost of nearly every process will be far higher than the cost of powering the capital with energy.
    - red75prime 2mo ago
      Unfortunately, we aren't there yet. Whyalla Steelworks was intended to produce "green steel" using hydrogen. The project began around 2022 and was cancelled in 2025 (timelines weren't met, financial troubles). Port Bonython Hydrogen hub studies its commitment to responsible development. I guess it means that not much is going on there right now.
ericd 2mo ago
I found the challenge with our own was just matching the peak of the panels to the peak voltage accepted by our inverter (including a safe margin for cold+snowy days where peak voltage is the highest), otherwise I totally would’ve loved to overpanel like crazy. George Costanza voice, I would drape my house in panels, if it were socially acceptable.
- futevolei 2mo ago
  Tell me more? Why can’t you 2x or nx the number of panels by wiring those additional panel in parallel (as opposed to in series)?
  - ericd 2mo ago
    Bumping up against current limits on the wiring and the inverter, sadly. Not sure how important that is, if the inverter refuses to pull more than that, though. The structure of our current wiring layout is also just more amenable to adding more in series.

epistasis 2mo ago

Given the durability of panels, it'd be fascinating to see roof redesigns, and some changes in panel packaging, that standard large rectangles become the basic components of a 30 year roof. Or as siding. I've seen them used vertically on the Southern walls of commercial buildings in Alaska, and they looked great.

thelastgallon 2mo ago
Absolutely. Energy has to be baked into every structural element. Either producing energy, or storing energy, or providing insulation, or acting as a transfer medium (heat pump).
password4321 2mo ago
Why don't they do this for cars?
- epistasis 2mo ago
  I'd imagine the difference between flat and curved, in addition to very different wear patterns, and inability to get your desired color. Even slight changes in packaging to adapt the panels to a structural material might increase cost. But doing custom shapes to fit the panels of a car? Getting just the right shape? That's an entirely different manufacturing process nothing like what currently gets produced. The benefit on cars is also pretty small, at least whenever I've bothered to calculate it. Cars need a massive amount of energy compared to a house, and have far less surface area.
  - moepstar 2mo ago
    …which is also never in an ideal angle for production.. Sono Motors tried it and went under.. In theory, it sounds great and even obvious, but once you get into the details - not so much..
- thelastgallon 2mo ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk6aTKV-des https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk6aTKV-des

red75prime 2mo ago

It requires large solar overcapacity to compensate for seasonal intermittency. Dedicated seasonal energy storage might be better economically.

epistasis 2mo ago
Solar overcapacity is really cheap, because panels are really cheap. Dedicated seasonal energy storage technology doesn't even exist right now, much less economically efficient storage technology. The closest thing would be a massive thermal store used for district heating, but only prototypes are starting right now. Industrial scaling and mass deployment? That's a decade+ away at a minimum. We could build seasonal overcapacity today, and it would be nearly economically competitive with existing fossil sources. It's hard to internalize just how cheap solar panels have become. Keeping the same inverter and grid connection, and doubling the panel capacity, nowhere near doubles the cost of the install.
- thelastgallon 2mo ago
  Indeed. Solar overcapacity can be used to produce green hydrogen for industrial uses (high heat), green ammonia (fertilizer), etc. Ammonia has supply chains and is known quantity to ship and store. Could be used in fuel cells. Of course, the efficiency is low, but thats a necessary cost for seasonal storage. Australia has so much land. And sunny everywhere. I'm sure Europe will buy green ammonia or fertilizer to meet their carbon goals. And green mining/metals/refining using hydrogen.
  - epistasis 2mo ago
    I think we are headed to an era of energy abundance such that the question won't be "how can we use these MWh that would otherwise go to waste" but rather "how can we make sure that these electrolyzers for hydrogen are never idle." Meaning that the capital cost of nearly every process will be far higher than the cost of powering the capital with energy.
  - red75prime 2mo ago
    Unfortunately, we aren't there yet. Whyalla Steelworks was intended to produce "green steel" using hydrogen. The project began around 2022 and was cancelled in 2025 (timelines weren't met, financial troubles). Port Bonython Hydrogen hub studies its commitment to responsible development. I guess it means that not much is going on there right now.

ericd 2mo ago

I found the challenge with our own was just matching the peak of the panels to the peak voltage accepted by our inverter (including a safe margin for cold+snowy days where peak voltage is the highest), otherwise I totally would’ve loved to overpanel like crazy. George Costanza voice, I would drape my house in panels, if it were socially acceptable.

futevolei 2mo ago
Tell me more? Why can’t you 2x or nx the number of panels by wiring those additional panel in parallel (as opposed to in series)?
- ericd 2mo ago
  Bumping up against current limits on the wiring and the inverter, sadly. Not sure how important that is, if the inverter refuses to pull more than that, though. The structure of our current wiring layout is also just more amenable to adding more in series.