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Anonymous Attacks Westboro Baptist Church Plans to Picket Sandy Hook Funerals

37 points by iProject 14y ago

maeon3 14y ago
Don't wrestle with a pig in mud because the outcome is the same whether you win or lose, you'll get all muddy, waste your time, and the pig will enjoy every minute of it. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wrestle_with_a_pig http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wrestle_with_a_pig
- oconnore 14y ago
  I don't think it matters whether WBC 'wins' or loses, as long as the families are protected.
  - maeon3 14y ago
    It is their right to picket and claim that the reason the tragedy happened is because of homosexual behaviour in this country. They are trolls, and interacting them in any way shape or form only feeds them. There is no solution to the problem. They are cancerous cells living in the collective not hurting anything, just reproducing. They aren't breaking any laws, and to deny them their rights because their message is wrong is not the answer. Maybe the solution is to lure them into committing a crime so the white blood cells can neutralize them.
    - objclxt 14y ago
      > "There is no solution to the problem" Sure there is - it's just that the solution isn't very palatable to people who support the first amendment. You make hate speech illegal. If, for example, the Westboro Baptist Church were to visit the UK and picket a funeral with the same language as they do in the US they'd quickly be arrested (although it's all hypothetical, because church members are already banned from entering the UK for extremism).
      - protomyth 14y ago
        I would rather deal with the weirdos than pass speech restriction laws.
        ahelwer 14y ago
        Has hate speech ever affected you? Does it even have the potential to?
        protomyth 14y ago
        Uh yep, it has had the potential to affect me. Grew up on a reservation as a white biological child of a native american (blood quotas) of a different tribe than the reservation. So, yeah. Despite a certain websites cute version "wasicu" really does have a pretty bad meaning. Having said that, my opinion is no less valid than if my Dad had not decided to move us from the west coast at a young age. Either you commit and actual crime or we are legislating mind control and weird interpretations of words. Given the "code words" discussions that came up in the 2012 election, I am pretty sure the Cardinal De Richelieu[1] would be right at home prosecuting hate speech. 1) "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."
    - oconnore 14y ago
      It's also within the scope of the first amendment to drown out their chants with motorcycles, to create human walls to distance them from the proceedings, and to conduct the ceremony on private property where there is no trespassing allowed. I'm not saying that we should throw them in jail, or that the first amendment should be weakened, but I am saying that there are creative, legal methods to protect the families from being exposed, and I hope that the community exercises them. Perhaps I misinterpreted Anonymous' intentions, but I assume that the response will be along these lines.
    - argumentum 14y ago
      Allowing to picket/speak IS the solution to the problem. They will continue to alienate themselves, reduce the chances of of the younger church members making friends/other contacts in the real world etc. Eventually, once the media stops broadcasting their every move, they will be reduced to the man/woman on a soapbox you see outside your university cafe.
- svmegatron 14y ago
  Respectfully, I don't think your analogy holds. I think the situation here is more akin to keeping a muddy pig out of a concert hall.
  - maeon3 14y ago
    Perhaps the solution is to tell the mourners that we live in a terrible world, and you'll have to grow a thick skin. The best we can do is warn the mourners that mentally ill people are coming to laugh at your tragedy.
sixQuarks 14y ago
Unfortunately, due to people and the media responding to Westboro's antics, they have made themselves into a household name. They have accomplished what they set out to do. It takes millions of dollars to get this much publicity.
- Tyrant505 14y ago
  I typed and deleted, "Not sure negative publicity helps a church." But, now thinking, the members of said church might further be loyal because of the attention and feel they have to defend and push harder in the face of protest.
- bunderbunder 14y ago
  I'm not sure they accomplished what they set out to do at all. The more opposition to gay rights can be associated with over-the-top hate groups like these, the more people will associate opposition to gay rights with foamy-mouth bigotry. Most people don't want to be like antisocial foamy-mouth bigots, and their desire to not be like them will have some influence on their opinions vis-a-vis the favorite issues of the group they don't want to be like. Perhaps they really did have no goal beyond getting on TV. But assuming they actually do want to spread an anti-gay message, I suspect their being on TV is actually accomplishing the opposite.
aes256 14y ago
Conspiracy theory time. Westboro Baptist Church are pretending to be 'Anonymous' and attacking themselves to gain even more publicity. Personally I don't think attacking the WBC aligns with the central tenets of the 'Anonymous' movement. Anonymous likes chaos, freedom of speech and expression, causing offense, etc.
- dhimes 14y ago
  Nah. It looks to me like splinter "Anonymous" groups are arising- like 'cells.' The guys involved in, say, the Iran website takedown or that security expert embarrassment operation (name escapes me) may not be involved in this at all. Just my guess, mind you.
protomyth 14y ago
They probably won't actually show up, since they got the publicity they wanted. The most effective solution would be for the media to quit covering them.
cafard 14y ago
Exactly what is Anonymous going to do? WBC does not seem like the sort of organization that is susceptible to electronic attacks. Gas money and a few reliable cars seems to be about all they need. The only possibly useful tactic that I can imagine is to treat them as if they were invisible.
csense 14y ago
Someone with privileges to do so should edit the headline. The article itself is called "Anonymous Attacks Westboro Baptist Church Over Plans to Picket Sandy Hook Funerals." But the HN headline is missing the word "Over," which makes it sound like Anonymous is picketing the funerals.
csense 14y ago
I can believe that people really, truly sincerely believe that homosexuality is morally wrong and our foreign policy is worthy of protest. But picketing the funerals of this tragedy's victims? It should be pretty clear that WBC is just a bunch of trolls.

37 points by iProject 14y ago

Don't wrestle with a pig in mud because the outcome is the same whether you win or lose, you'll get all muddy, waste your time, and the pig will enjoy every minute of it. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wrestle_with_a_pig http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wrestle_with_a_pig

oconnore 14y ago
I don't think it matters whether WBC 'wins' or loses, as long as the families are protected.
- maeon3 14y ago
  It is their right to picket and claim that the reason the tragedy happened is because of homosexual behaviour in this country. They are trolls, and interacting them in any way shape or form only feeds them. There is no solution to the problem. They are cancerous cells living in the collective not hurting anything, just reproducing. They aren't breaking any laws, and to deny them their rights because their message is wrong is not the answer. Maybe the solution is to lure them into committing a crime so the white blood cells can neutralize them.
  - objclxt 14y ago
    > "There is no solution to the problem" Sure there is - it's just that the solution isn't very palatable to people who support the first amendment. You make hate speech illegal. If, for example, the Westboro Baptist Church were to visit the UK and picket a funeral with the same language as they do in the US they'd quickly be arrested (although it's all hypothetical, because church members are already banned from entering the UK for extremism).
    - protomyth 14y ago
      I would rather deal with the weirdos than pass speech restriction laws.
      - ahelwer 14y ago
        Has hate speech ever affected you? Does it even have the potential to?
        protomyth 14y ago
        Uh yep, it has had the potential to affect me. Grew up on a reservation as a white biological child of a native american (blood quotas) of a different tribe than the reservation. So, yeah. Despite a certain websites cute version "wasicu" really does have a pretty bad meaning. Having said that, my opinion is no less valid than if my Dad had not decided to move us from the west coast at a young age. Either you commit and actual crime or we are legislating mind control and weird interpretations of words. Given the "code words" discussions that came up in the 2012 election, I am pretty sure the Cardinal De Richelieu[1] would be right at home prosecuting hate speech. 1) "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."
  - oconnore 14y ago
    It's also within the scope of the first amendment to drown out their chants with motorcycles, to create human walls to distance them from the proceedings, and to conduct the ceremony on private property where there is no trespassing allowed. I'm not saying that we should throw them in jail, or that the first amendment should be weakened, but I am saying that there are creative, legal methods to protect the families from being exposed, and I hope that the community exercises them. Perhaps I misinterpreted Anonymous' intentions, but I assume that the response will be along these lines.
  - argumentum 14y ago
    Allowing to picket/speak IS the solution to the problem. They will continue to alienate themselves, reduce the chances of of the younger church members making friends/other contacts in the real world etc. Eventually, once the media stops broadcasting their every move, they will be reduced to the man/woman on a soapbox you see outside your university cafe.
svmegatron 14y ago
Respectfully, I don't think your analogy holds. I think the situation here is more akin to keeping a muddy pig out of a concert hall.
- maeon3 14y ago
  Perhaps the solution is to tell the mourners that we live in a terrible world, and you'll have to grow a thick skin. The best we can do is warn the mourners that mentally ill people are coming to laugh at your tragedy.

sixQuarks 14y ago

Unfortunately, due to people and the media responding to Westboro's antics, they have made themselves into a household name. They have accomplished what they set out to do. It takes millions of dollars to get this much publicity.

Tyrant505 14y ago
I typed and deleted, "Not sure negative publicity helps a church." But, now thinking, the members of said church might further be loyal because of the attention and feel they have to defend and push harder in the face of protest.
bunderbunder 14y ago
I'm not sure they accomplished what they set out to do at all. The more opposition to gay rights can be associated with over-the-top hate groups like these, the more people will associate opposition to gay rights with foamy-mouth bigotry. Most people don't want to be like antisocial foamy-mouth bigots, and their desire to not be like them will have some influence on their opinions vis-a-vis the favorite issues of the group they don't want to be like. Perhaps they really did have no goal beyond getting on TV. But assuming they actually do want to spread an anti-gay message, I suspect their being on TV is actually accomplishing the opposite.

aes256 14y ago

Conspiracy theory time. Westboro Baptist Church are pretending to be 'Anonymous' and attacking themselves to gain even more publicity. Personally I don't think attacking the WBC aligns with the central tenets of the 'Anonymous' movement. Anonymous likes chaos, freedom of speech and expression, causing offense, etc.

dhimes 14y ago
Nah. It looks to me like splinter "Anonymous" groups are arising- like 'cells.' The guys involved in, say, the Iran website takedown or that security expert embarrassment operation (name escapes me) may not be involved in this at all. Just my guess, mind you.

protomyth 14y ago

They probably won't actually show up, since they got the publicity they wanted. The most effective solution would be for the media to quit covering them.

cafard 14y ago

Exactly what is Anonymous going to do? WBC does not seem like the sort of organization that is susceptible to electronic attacks. Gas money and a few reliable cars seems to be about all they need. The only possibly useful tactic that I can imagine is to treat them as if they were invisible.

csense 14y ago

Someone with privileges to do so should edit the headline. The article itself is called "Anonymous Attacks Westboro Baptist Church Over Plans to Picket Sandy Hook Funerals." But the HN headline is missing the word "Over," which makes it sound like Anonymous is picketing the funerals.

csense 14y ago

I can believe that people really, truly sincerely believe that homosexuality is morally wrong and our foreign policy is worthy of protest. But picketing the funerals of this tragedy's victims? It should be pretty clear that WBC is just a bunch of trolls.