4 ms·

VTOL aircraft have the same distance capabilities and make more sense in a lot more scenarios than this, with way more flexibility. It’s obviously larger but I’

VTOL aircraft have the same distance capabilities and make more sense in a lot more scenarios than this, with way more flexibility. It’s obviously larger but I’m just not sure of potential advantages over other modes of transport currently available and in the near future

wffurr 2mo ago
Aren't VTOL aircraft significantly more complex and riskier to operate than fixed-wing prop aircraft? There's certainly many fewer moving parts and tricky transitions from hover to airfoil flight regime.
- voakbasda 2mo ago
  And there’s that whole pesky problem of not being able to glide to a safe landing when something goes catastrophically wrong.
  - catketch 2mo ago
    that varies with the design (they could have small fixed wings). Beta have full-airframe ballistic parachutes i believe. That is feasible at least for smaller aircraft.
    - alistairSH 2mo ago
      IIRC, the fastest and heaviest plane with a ballistic parachute system is the Cirrus jet, which is both lighter and slower than a typical commercial twin-engine turbo-prop (looked at the King Air and the Dash 8 to cover small corporate and larger commercial workhorse). Not saying a parachute couldn't be designed to work, but there isn't an existing option today.
- alistairSH 2mo ago
  A quick search of Osprey Class A mishaps puts it slightly ahead (better off) than Blackhawk or Super Stallion. But a way worse record when compared to the fixed-wing C-130. Both comparisons are per 100k flight hours. Some of that risk can possibly be mitigated with a rotating engine, but fixed wing, similar to the Bell Valor. Possibly, because AFAIK, the Valor is the only plane like this and it's just a PoC.
bglazer 2mo ago
I'm not so sure. I haven't seen a true regional airline class VTOL yet, mostly just demonstrators that carry a few people, at that. The fact that it's larger is actually very important, the economics of a regional jet replacement make far more sense than that of an air taxi. I also doubt the similar range claim, lifting an airframe directly into the air without wings is far, far less efficient than just taking off with the benefit of lift. They're also way more complex and would require additional training for pilots. Further, noise restrictions will probably limit VTOL's to airports, never underestimate the NIMBY's. Note that demo videos of eVTOL's almost always have background music rather than ambient sound.
catketch 2mo ago
VTOL will not have the same distance capability because the 'vertical' flgiht is the most energy intesive. It's why there's designs like the Beta which transition from VTOL to fixed wing forward flight as soon as they can. VTOL have other advantages of course in terms of operational flexibility, but where there's existing airfields, fixed electric would be more efficient Also, at the size/scale of this aircraft (thirty passengers) any type of VTOL wouldd be even less practical
consumer451 2mo ago
I really like the STOL "blown lift" Electra design. It never has to do the dangerous transition to an inefficient VTOL mode, and can still land in very small places. Although, this is a much small aircraft, and it's a hybrid. https://electra.aero/ https://electra.aero/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4INw9bclxeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4INw9bclxeI

wffurr 2mo ago

Aren't VTOL aircraft significantly more complex and riskier to operate than fixed-wing prop aircraft? There's certainly many fewer moving parts and tricky transitions from hover to airfoil flight regime.

voakbasda 2mo ago
And there’s that whole pesky problem of not being able to glide to a safe landing when something goes catastrophically wrong.
- catketch 2mo ago
  that varies with the design (they could have small fixed wings). Beta have full-airframe ballistic parachutes i believe. That is feasible at least for smaller aircraft.
  - alistairSH 2mo ago
    IIRC, the fastest and heaviest plane with a ballistic parachute system is the Cirrus jet, which is both lighter and slower than a typical commercial twin-engine turbo-prop (looked at the King Air and the Dash 8 to cover small corporate and larger commercial workhorse). Not saying a parachute couldn't be designed to work, but there isn't an existing option today.
alistairSH 2mo ago
A quick search of Osprey Class A mishaps puts it slightly ahead (better off) than Blackhawk or Super Stallion. But a way worse record when compared to the fixed-wing C-130. Both comparisons are per 100k flight hours. Some of that risk can possibly be mitigated with a rotating engine, but fixed wing, similar to the Bell Valor. Possibly, because AFAIK, the Valor is the only plane like this and it's just a PoC.

bglazer 2mo ago

I'm not so sure. I haven't seen a true regional airline class VTOL yet, mostly just demonstrators that carry a few people, at that. The fact that it's larger is actually very important, the economics of a regional jet replacement make far more sense than that of an air taxi. I also doubt the similar range claim, lifting an airframe directly into the air without wings is far, far less efficient than just taking off with the benefit of lift. They're also way more complex and would require additional training for pilots. Further, noise restrictions will probably limit VTOL's to airports, never underestimate the NIMBY's. Note that demo videos of eVTOL's almost always have background music rather than ambient sound.

catketch 2mo ago

VTOL will not have the same distance capability because the 'vertical' flgiht is the most energy intesive. It's why there's designs like the Beta which transition from VTOL to fixed wing forward flight as soon as they can. VTOL have other advantages of course in terms of operational flexibility, but where there's existing airfields, fixed electric would be more efficient Also, at the size/scale of this aircraft (thirty passengers) any type of VTOL wouldd be even less practical

consumer451 2mo ago

I really like the STOL "blown lift" Electra design. It never has to do the dangerous transition to an inefficient VTOL mode, and can still land in very small places. Although, this is a much small aircraft, and it's a hybrid. https://electra.aero/ https://electra.aero/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4INw9bclxeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4INw9bclxeI