5 ms·

Too bad all seems that we are heading to even faster rate of warming. It may end being something we will see by next decade. And it won't be the only big thing

Too bad all seems that we are heading to even faster rate of warming. It may end being something we will see by next decade. And it won't be the only big thing that will be sensibly changing by then.

toasty228 2mo ago
If this doesn't get us we still have massive insect extinction, ocean acidification, permafrost thawing, prolonged droughts, etc. There is just no way out at the point, the planet is tanking the damage for now but once it'll crack, and it's starting to, many systems will fail simultaneously, no amount of theatrical green washing will undo the damage
- moffers 2mo ago
  I guess we should probably start looking for a new planet. Nothing else to be done I’m afraid.
  - snaking0776 2mo ago
    I hope this is sarcasm. I sometimes can’t tell here
    - moffers 2mo ago
      It was, but it’s a dry place so I should have made it a bit more obvious
  - voidfunc 2mo ago
    Probably easier to just merge our consciousness with machine based bodies in the long-term. Biology is a bitch compared to mechanical engineering.
    - 27183 2mo ago
      You might consider cracking a book and learning something before opining.
      - voidfunc 2mo ago
        Where's the fun in that?
      - Mallory_Ringess 2mo ago
        Agree, start with some books on the veracity of doom predictions of which there have been many. Learn how to read the IPCC reports so that you don't have to rely on the media summary which has been shown to be not much more than click bait given that they have been using the now-dropped RCP8.5 (and SSP5-8.5, and SSP3-7.0) scenarios. Read some works by the likes of Bjørn Lomborg, Michael Schellenberger, Steven Koonin et al as a counter to what the media have been pushing for years. Then and only then it is time to make up your mind where you stand on the subject of anthropogenic climate change and what it means for the future of society.
    - cachius 2mo ago
      About Wolf Tivy's idea of "xenohumanism": strip "humanity" of all ape-ish historical contingency and identify the convergent "true man" as sum of "human" capabilities like language, philosophy, sociality, intelligence, consciousness https://xcancel.com/wolftivy/status/2085790987293692248#m https://xcancel.com/wolftivy/status/2085790987293692248#m
    - 27183 2mo ago
      My apologies. I misunderstood your comment in my first reply to this thread. I now see you're saying biology is vastly more complex and difficult than mechanical engineering. I misinterpreted that before. I agree. Mechanical engineering often doesn't have to contend with systems that are as complex and ill behaved as biological systems. Tipping points, chaos, etc can arise in simple mechanical systems but they're usually pretty easily avoided. So, I'm sorry. And I think you're right.
  - phoe-krk 2mo ago
    I realized that this your comment outlines almost the whole plot of Chrono Trigger, just on a slightly different scale.
- GolfPopper 2mo ago
  "How did human civilization collapse?" "Two ways. Gradually and then suddenly."
spwa4 2mo ago
Why? Deindustrializing especially Europe moved factories into coal powered regions. It was put forward as green policy, but how can this result be a surprise to anyone?
- alephnerd 2mo ago
  If that was the case, then global GHG emissions would have remained roughly stagnant for over 2 decades. The reality is the world got richer, and households who 30 years ago would have had little access to electricity, finished manufactured goods, and automotive vehicles can now purchase those. Go visit a village in rural China, India, or Vietnam - 30 years ago plastic bags were nonexistent and industrial fertilizers were rationed, and now tetrapaks, plastics, industrial fertilizers, and heavy machinery like tractors and trucks are everywhere. In 2000, China and India's HDIs were comparable to Cameroon and Ethiopia's present HDI. That isn't the case in 2023 (UNDP HDI calculations have a 2-3 year lag because transnational data collection is hard). And large, poor countries like Pakistan (260 million), DRC (100 million), and Ethiopia (139 million) are now hitting developmental indicators comparable to those two in the early 2000s. Most countries have chosen to use both GreenTech and Coal to expand electricity generation from Vietnam [0] to India [1] to Indonesia [2]. You are talking about 3 billion people living in an economic region that is expected to see 6-8% GDP growth rates for at least the next decade. And even countries at the lower end of the developmental cycle like Pakistan [3][4] and Ethiopia [5] are now doing the same. Frankly, it doesn't matter what reduction Europe does (and Europe's GHG emissions reduction has been massive [6]) because India, ASEAN, and LatAm's GHG emissions expansion eats up any reduction from the EU-27 and US. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/vietnam-allows-coal-miners-raise-output-meet-power-generation-demand-2026-06-10/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/vietnam-allows-coal-... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-fuels-global-growth-planned-coal-mining-capacity-report-says-2026-08-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-fuels-global-g... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indonesia-coal-power-phase-out-plan-risk-due-stalled-international-funding-2025-11-17/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indonesia-coal-power... [3] - https://www.climatepolicylab.org/climatesmart/2022/1/27/what-drives-pakistans-coal-fired-power-plant-construction-boom https://www.climatepolicylab.org/climatesmart/2022/1/27/what... [4] - https://www.thefridaytimes.com/19-Jun-2026/thar-coal-pakistan-s-imperative-energy-sovereignty-economic-resilience https://www.thefridaytimes.com/19-Jun-2026/thar-coal-pakista... [5] - https://afrinz.ru/en/2026/07/there-is-a-request-to-supply-60-000-tonnes-of-coal-a-month-russian-trade-representative-in-ethiopia-discusses-prospects-for-russian-business/ https://afrinz.ru/en/2026/07/there-is-a-request-to-supply-60... [6] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?time=1980..latest&country=USA~CHN~Asia+%28excl.+China+and+India%29~IND~European+Union+%2828%29~RUS~OWID_AFR~North+America+%28excl.+USA%29~OWID_SAM~OWID_OCE https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...

Too bad all seems that we are heading to even faster rate of warming. It may end being something we will see by next decade. And it won't be the only big thing that will be sensibly changing by then.

toasty228 2mo ago

If this doesn't get us we still have massive insect extinction, ocean acidification, permafrost thawing, prolonged droughts, etc. There is just no way out at the point, the planet is tanking the damage for now but once it'll crack, and it's starting to, many systems will fail simultaneously, no amount of theatrical green washing will undo the damage

moffers 2mo ago
I guess we should probably start looking for a new planet. Nothing else to be done I’m afraid.
- snaking0776 2mo ago
  I hope this is sarcasm. I sometimes can’t tell here
  - moffers 2mo ago
    It was, but it’s a dry place so I should have made it a bit more obvious
- voidfunc 2mo ago
  Probably easier to just merge our consciousness with machine based bodies in the long-term. Biology is a bitch compared to mechanical engineering.
  - 27183 2mo ago
    You might consider cracking a book and learning something before opining.
    - voidfunc 2mo ago
      Where's the fun in that?
    - Mallory_Ringess 2mo ago
      Agree, start with some books on the veracity of doom predictions of which there have been many. Learn how to read the IPCC reports so that you don't have to rely on the media summary which has been shown to be not much more than click bait given that they have been using the now-dropped RCP8.5 (and SSP5-8.5, and SSP3-7.0) scenarios. Read some works by the likes of Bjørn Lomborg, Michael Schellenberger, Steven Koonin et al as a counter to what the media have been pushing for years. Then and only then it is time to make up your mind where you stand on the subject of anthropogenic climate change and what it means for the future of society.
  - cachius 2mo ago
    About Wolf Tivy's idea of "xenohumanism": strip "humanity" of all ape-ish historical contingency and identify the convergent "true man" as sum of "human" capabilities like language, philosophy, sociality, intelligence, consciousness https://xcancel.com/wolftivy/status/2085790987293692248#m https://xcancel.com/wolftivy/status/2085790987293692248#m
  - 27183 2mo ago
    My apologies. I misunderstood your comment in my first reply to this thread. I now see you're saying biology is vastly more complex and difficult than mechanical engineering. I misinterpreted that before. I agree. Mechanical engineering often doesn't have to contend with systems that are as complex and ill behaved as biological systems. Tipping points, chaos, etc can arise in simple mechanical systems but they're usually pretty easily avoided. So, I'm sorry. And I think you're right.
- phoe-krk 2mo ago
  I realized that this your comment outlines almost the whole plot of Chrono Trigger, just on a slightly different scale.
GolfPopper 2mo ago
"How did human civilization collapse?" "Two ways. Gradually and then suddenly."

spwa4 2mo ago

Why? Deindustrializing especially Europe moved factories into coal powered regions. It was put forward as green policy, but how can this result be a surprise to anyone?

alephnerd 2mo ago
If that was the case, then global GHG emissions would have remained roughly stagnant for over 2 decades. The reality is the world got richer, and households who 30 years ago would have had little access to electricity, finished manufactured goods, and automotive vehicles can now purchase those. Go visit a village in rural China, India, or Vietnam - 30 years ago plastic bags were nonexistent and industrial fertilizers were rationed, and now tetrapaks, plastics, industrial fertilizers, and heavy machinery like tractors and trucks are everywhere. In 2000, China and India's HDIs were comparable to Cameroon and Ethiopia's present HDI. That isn't the case in 2023 (UNDP HDI calculations have a 2-3 year lag because transnational data collection is hard). And large, poor countries like Pakistan (260 million), DRC (100 million), and Ethiopia (139 million) are now hitting developmental indicators comparable to those two in the early 2000s. Most countries have chosen to use both GreenTech and Coal to expand electricity generation from Vietnam [0] to India [1] to Indonesia [2]. You are talking about 3 billion people living in an economic region that is expected to see 6-8% GDP growth rates for at least the next decade. And even countries at the lower end of the developmental cycle like Pakistan [3][4] and Ethiopia [5] are now doing the same. Frankly, it doesn't matter what reduction Europe does (and Europe's GHG emissions reduction has been massive [6]) because India, ASEAN, and LatAm's GHG emissions expansion eats up any reduction from the EU-27 and US. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/vietnam-allows-coal-miners-raise-output-meet-power-generation-demand-2026-06-10/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/vietnam-allows-coal-... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-fuels-global-growth-planned-coal-mining-capacity-report-says-2026-08-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-fuels-global-g... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indonesia-coal-power-phase-out-plan-risk-due-stalled-international-funding-2025-11-17/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indonesia-coal-power... [3] - https://www.climatepolicylab.org/climatesmart/2022/1/27/what-drives-pakistans-coal-fired-power-plant-construction-boom https://www.climatepolicylab.org/climatesmart/2022/1/27/what... [4] - https://www.thefridaytimes.com/19-Jun-2026/thar-coal-pakistan-s-imperative-energy-sovereignty-economic-resilience https://www.thefridaytimes.com/19-Jun-2026/thar-coal-pakista... [5] - https://afrinz.ru/en/2026/07/there-is-a-request-to-supply-60-000-tonnes-of-coal-a-month-russian-trade-representative-in-ethiopia-discusses-prospects-for-russian-business/ https://afrinz.ru/en/2026/07/there-is-a-request-to-supply-60... [6] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?time=1980..latest&country=USA~CHN~Asia+%28excl.+China+and+India%29~IND~European+Union+%2828%29~RUS~OWID_AFR~North+America+%28excl.+USA%29~OWID_SAM~OWID_OCE https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...