4 ms·

> Dart is a really _ugly_ language with lots of tiny annoyances. Its as if someone took worst parts of Java and Javascript and turned them into a language. Terr

> Dart is a really _ugly_ language with lots of tiny annoyances. Its as if someone took worst parts of Java and Javascript and turned them into a language. Terrible to write, terrible to read, terrible to use. While I’m a bit ambivalent towards Flutter, I totally disagree with you on Dart. To me it’s a better version of Java/Typescript with a very mature cross-platform and JIT/AOT compiler. Admittedly there are some things I wish they would take from TS (like discriminated unions), and I haven’t tried “modern” Java either so maybe that’s improved, but even so, I rarely feel like Dart is getting in the way.

satvikpendem 2mo ago
They probably just haven't used the latest Dart versions which fixed a lot of the "ugliness" (which I'd call pragmatism but regardless) like primary constructors where a class can just be a single line now. And I mean, their entire comment is a way to shill their app so I wouldn't take much stock in what they're saying.
brabel 2mo ago
Yeah I have no idea how someone who has used all these languages can come up with a conclusion like Dart is “uglier”. I really want to know what exactly they think is ugly about it!
- anthropodie 2mo ago
  They have written their own UI framework. Probably the reason they are biased against other frameworks
  - hypendev 2mo ago
    I am biased - but mostly because I have actively used these in my career for quite a while now and encountered pains with both writing new code, upgrading old code and worst, inheriting code or helping debug someone else's code. When given a choice, I'd rather use bland React Native nowadays than Expo or Flutter - one is a legacy addon to a framework, while the other sounds like a good idea until you step on a nail or have to read some _bad_ code. And there is a whoooole lot of bad flutter code out there due to relaxed language semantics.
- hypendev 2mo ago
  Mostly its the core syntax, it's terribly noisy. Also parts of the implementation itself. While I cannot enumerate the taste, I can give you some examples. For example: - Class constructors cannot be in definition headers, i.e. class Something(Int a, Int b) - The whole final and const/static const mess - required is annoying and really "slapped on" - shorthand syntax is => instead of =, personal pet peeve - positional, named and optional parameters segregation makes things noisy - concurrency, in which an event loop sounds like a great idea but ends up causing pain with multi-threading and background work so you have to spawn diff isolates - the whole `await fn()` vs `fn()` validity issue, where you can miss the await keyword and it still compiles is such a slap in the face. think now they solved it, but you could also have returns from non-return functions and vice-versa. - `dynamic` and generics in the same language have caused many bad designs - extension types also feel hacked on - type inference is annoying and highly contextual vs out of the box - Worst sin: DateTime.now() returns different things based on the platform its running on, making it highly unreliable for something so important
  - brabel 2mo ago
    I don’t want to sound harsh but that’s the least convincing list of language misfeatures I’ve ever seen. Almost every point is so minor I am surprised you didn’t mention having to type semicolons and similar incredibly inconsequential things.
    - hypendev 2mo ago
      They are minor, but that is why I called it ugly - not bad. It's a matter of taste, and Dart's syntax style doesn't match mine. As much as I tried to enjoy it, after a while I just couldn't look at it anymore. All of these accumulate and make it feel overly noisy for a lazy brain.

satvikpendem 2mo ago

They probably just haven't used the latest Dart versions which fixed a lot of the "ugliness" (which I'd call pragmatism but regardless) like primary constructors where a class can just be a single line now. And I mean, their entire comment is a way to shill their app so I wouldn't take much stock in what they're saying.

brabel 2mo ago

Yeah I have no idea how someone who has used all these languages can come up with a conclusion like Dart is “uglier”. I really want to know what exactly they think is ugly about it!

anthropodie 2mo ago
They have written their own UI framework. Probably the reason they are biased against other frameworks
- hypendev 2mo ago
  I am biased - but mostly because I have actively used these in my career for quite a while now and encountered pains with both writing new code, upgrading old code and worst, inheriting code or helping debug someone else's code. When given a choice, I'd rather use bland React Native nowadays than Expo or Flutter - one is a legacy addon to a framework, while the other sounds like a good idea until you step on a nail or have to read some _bad_ code. And there is a whoooole lot of bad flutter code out there due to relaxed language semantics.
hypendev 2mo ago
Mostly its the core syntax, it's terribly noisy. Also parts of the implementation itself. While I cannot enumerate the taste, I can give you some examples. For example: - Class constructors cannot be in definition headers, i.e. class Something(Int a, Int b) - The whole final and const/static const mess - required is annoying and really "slapped on" - shorthand syntax is => instead of =, personal pet peeve - positional, named and optional parameters segregation makes things noisy - concurrency, in which an event loop sounds like a great idea but ends up causing pain with multi-threading and background work so you have to spawn diff isolates - the whole `await fn()` vs `fn()` validity issue, where you can miss the await keyword and it still compiles is such a slap in the face. think now they solved it, but you could also have returns from non-return functions and vice-versa. - `dynamic` and generics in the same language have caused many bad designs - extension types also feel hacked on - type inference is annoying and highly contextual vs out of the box - Worst sin: DateTime.now() returns different things based on the platform its running on, making it highly unreliable for something so important
- brabel 2mo ago
  I don’t want to sound harsh but that’s the least convincing list of language misfeatures I’ve ever seen. Almost every point is so minor I am surprised you didn’t mention having to type semicolons and similar incredibly inconsequential things.
  - hypendev 2mo ago
    They are minor, but that is why I called it ugly - not bad. It's a matter of taste, and Dart's syntax style doesn't match mine. As much as I tried to enjoy it, after a while I just couldn't look at it anymore. All of these accumulate and make it feel overly noisy for a lazy brain.