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Well, of course. The stigma surrounding AI use will only get worse with stuff like this. I'm not interested in having people single me out for using AI. So glad

Well, of course. The stigma surrounding AI use will only get worse with stuff like this. I'm not interested in having people single me out for using AI. So glad I switched away from Anthropic.

datakan 3mo ago
Did you write this with AI? jk
bulder 3mo ago
The stigma surrounding AI use will get worse if... People know AI is being used? Sorry how does maintaining heightened paranoia by omitting clear signals help exactly?
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  I'm not interested in "helping" people call me "slop fetishist" or "clanker lover", thanks.
fzeroracer 3mo ago
Hiding your use of AI will only make things worse when people find out. Look at how badly the CEO of Saber Interactive is crashing out after they lied about firing a writer to replace them with AI.
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  I don't hide my AI use at all.
  - xnorswap 3mo ago
    Then why care about a watermark?
    - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
      Because it's yet another signal prejudiced people get to use against me to dismiss my projects as slop.
      - JohnFen 3mo ago
        But in the absence of a reliable signal (which I doubt this is anyway, so I'm speaking hypothetically), lots of people will get their work dismissed as AI-generated when it isn't.
        matheusmoreira 3mo ago
        People should not be dismissing other people's work at all, AI generated or not. If you're looking for signals, it's because you want to do something based on the result. Maybe people should work on getting rid of that impulse instead.
        fzeroracer 3mo ago
        If you're a gamer: Have you seen the amount of AI slop on Steam? Or the amount of poorly created translations banged out with AI? Or the amount of shitty decomps appearing daily developed with Claude? People are looking for signals because AI usage is a strong signal of poor quality trash. You are not going to overcome that barrier by complaining it's being made obvious of it or complaining that people are being 'prejudiced', the only way you will overcome it is by proving you have something of actual worth. And if you can't prove that, then maybe you need to reevaluate what you are creating.
        matheusmoreira 3mo ago
        > Have you seen the amount of AI slop on Steam? I think I might have purchased some of those. > Or the amount of shitty decomps appearing daily developed with Claude? I'm developing one of those "shitty" decomps. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49267102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49267102 I'm still annotating the game myself though. Because I care about it and actually want to learn how it works. > People are looking for signals because AI usage is a strong signal of poor quality trash. Yes, I understand you want to dismiss works based purely on provenance without actually evaluating it on its merits. Pre-judgement, as I said. Prejudice. No, I will not help you do it. > the only way you will overcome it is by proving you have something of actual worth Ah yes, please continue. Do tell me about the worth of my own projects. GitHub and website links are on my profile.
ModernMech 3mo ago
Unfortunately the witch hunts don't stop whether you use AI or not. Even if you don't use it, (unavoidable) false positives mean the anti-ai crusaders come for you eventually anyway. Happened in plenty of purity-seeking art communities already, will happen in code communities as well. The people who get hurt are the people just trying to make things. Best not to empower self righteous people with flawed sin-detecting tools, that's guaranteed to turn out badly for everyone.
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  Agreed... How did the art community deal with the witch hunts? In my case the consequences are mounting. I've already essentially abandoned two communities over it. I'm sitting on human reviewed and tested mesa patches I can't bring myself to submit to upstream because of the AI stigma. I was using AI to revive some of my GCC work as well but abandoned it after their policy announcement. There seems to be no end in sight.
  - ModernMech 3mo ago
    It was bad in one that I was part of. First they had people put their work through those ai detectors and there were a bunch of false positives, so they started requiring “process videos” showing you actually working on the project. But then people started calling those AI generated. Nothing could satisfy them. So you’d have artists making handmade work, putting it through ai detectors, submitting process videos of them literally working on the piece, and still they were driven from the community because enough people just got toxic about it. Felt very Red Scare. “Are you now, or have you ever been, a user of AI?" As an aside, I’ve never seen any pro ai people treat anyone not using ai like this.

Well, of course. The stigma surrounding AI use will only get worse with stuff like this. I'm not interested in having people single me out for using AI. So glad I switched away from Anthropic.

datakan 3mo ago

Did you write this with AI? jk

bulder 3mo ago

The stigma surrounding AI use will get worse if... People know AI is being used? Sorry how does maintaining heightened paranoia by omitting clear signals help exactly?

matheusmoreira 3mo ago
I'm not interested in "helping" people call me "slop fetishist" or "clanker lover", thanks.

fzeroracer 3mo ago

Hiding your use of AI will only make things worse when people find out. Look at how badly the CEO of Saber Interactive is crashing out after they lied about firing a writer to replace them with AI.

matheusmoreira 3mo ago
I don't hide my AI use at all.
- xnorswap 3mo ago
  Then why care about a watermark?
  - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
    Because it's yet another signal prejudiced people get to use against me to dismiss my projects as slop.
    - JohnFen 3mo ago
      But in the absence of a reliable signal (which I doubt this is anyway, so I'm speaking hypothetically), lots of people will get their work dismissed as AI-generated when it isn't.
      - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
        People should not be dismissing other people's work at all, AI generated or not. If you're looking for signals, it's because you want to do something based on the result. Maybe people should work on getting rid of that impulse instead.
        fzeroracer 3mo ago
        If you're a gamer: Have you seen the amount of AI slop on Steam? Or the amount of poorly created translations banged out with AI? Or the amount of shitty decomps appearing daily developed with Claude? People are looking for signals because AI usage is a strong signal of poor quality trash. You are not going to overcome that barrier by complaining it's being made obvious of it or complaining that people are being 'prejudiced', the only way you will overcome it is by proving you have something of actual worth. And if you can't prove that, then maybe you need to reevaluate what you are creating.
        matheusmoreira 3mo ago
        > Have you seen the amount of AI slop on Steam? I think I might have purchased some of those. > Or the amount of shitty decomps appearing daily developed with Claude? I'm developing one of those "shitty" decomps. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49267102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49267102 I'm still annotating the game myself though. Because I care about it and actually want to learn how it works. > People are looking for signals because AI usage is a strong signal of poor quality trash. Yes, I understand you want to dismiss works based purely on provenance without actually evaluating it on its merits. Pre-judgement, as I said. Prejudice. No, I will not help you do it. > the only way you will overcome it is by proving you have something of actual worth Ah yes, please continue. Do tell me about the worth of my own projects. GitHub and website links are on my profile.

ModernMech 3mo ago

Unfortunately the witch hunts don't stop whether you use AI or not. Even if you don't use it, (unavoidable) false positives mean the anti-ai crusaders come for you eventually anyway. Happened in plenty of purity-seeking art communities already, will happen in code communities as well. The people who get hurt are the people just trying to make things. Best not to empower self righteous people with flawed sin-detecting tools, that's guaranteed to turn out badly for everyone.

matheusmoreira 3mo ago
Agreed... How did the art community deal with the witch hunts? In my case the consequences are mounting. I've already essentially abandoned two communities over it. I'm sitting on human reviewed and tested mesa patches I can't bring myself to submit to upstream because of the AI stigma. I was using AI to revive some of my GCC work as well but abandoned it after their policy announcement. There seems to be no end in sight.
- ModernMech 3mo ago
  It was bad in one that I was part of. First they had people put their work through those ai detectors and there were a bunch of false positives, so they started requiring “process videos” showing you actually working on the project. But then people started calling those AI generated. Nothing could satisfy them. So you’d have artists making handmade work, putting it through ai detectors, submitting process videos of them literally working on the piece, and still they were driven from the community because enough people just got toxic about it. Felt very Red Scare. “Are you now, or have you ever been, a user of AI?" As an aside, I’ve never seen any pro ai people treat anyone not using ai like this.