3 ms·

Why lab meat? Plants are right here now, require very little electricity, the sun is free, they can't run away, many can be eaten with very little preparation.

by edoceo 2mo ago

Why lab meat? Plants are right here now, require very little electricity, the sun is free, they can't run away, many can be eaten with very little preparation. It's both cheap and easy.

energy123 2mo ago
Because not everyone shares your preference and/or discipline for plants. Lab grown meat doesn't require a planetary scale realignment of moral values and habits.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- soulofmischief 2mo ago
  Some might argue that ignorance or apathy doesn't reduce someone's participation as a consumer in a very inhumane and climate-wrecking meat industry down to simply "preference". I do agree it's unrealistic to expect 8 billion people to change their habits overnight, but we are going to see a massive prisoner's dilemma as resources dwindle until that 8 billion number starts falling.
  - energy123 2mo ago
    That's a moral judgement about what words to use that has no bearing on causality. Incentives are never a valid justification but they are almost always an explanation. We should care about explanations when trying to solve problems.
    - soulofmischief 2mo ago
      I agree, designing institutions around incentives is key. But the discussion around factory farms can shaped around ethics and not morals, and I had taken the opportunity to point out that "preference" reads as unwarranted euphemism in the face of the brutality of modern factory farming, and downplays the agency of the individual as a participant. Past that, we are in full agreement that it's more fruitful to solve the problem rather than sit around making judgements.
- account42 2mo ago
  > Lab grown meat doesn't require a planetary scale realignment of moral values and habits. It absolutely does until it's actually something normal people call "meat" which is still a long long way off.
- williamdclt 2mo ago
  habits, no. But difficult argument to make that lab-grown meat requires _less_ of a "moral value realignment" than plant-based food?
toshinoriyagi 2mo ago
Various plants (dark leafy greens/cruciferous vegetables) do make up the foundation of a healthy diet, but do not provide significant protein or fats. Meat is very useful from a dietary perspective. You can make a quality vegan/vegetarian diet, but hitting high protein goals for those who are active can be difficult. The majority of vegetarian+ protein options are also high in carbs. Plus, meat is tasty. It makes perfect sense people look forward to lab-grown variants that are ethically sourced and have no adverse health effects.
- throwaway2037 2mo ago
  > but do not provide significant protein or fats Uh what? Seed oils. Avocados. Tofu / seitan / tempeh.
  - toshinoriyagi 2mo ago
    Sure, but a seed oil is not a plant. The oil is extracted from a plant. You can eat all the plants you want, but unless you directly consume the processed extract, you won't be getting much fat. Avocados are a source of healthy fats. However, this still leaves you deficient in EPA. Conversion from ALA is trash, so the only option to my knowledge is seaweed/algae and you would massively over-consume other nutrients trying to hit the DRI for EPA. Your only option is supplementing with algae pills I think. From a quick glance, this is 2-3x as expensive as fish/fish oil. Tofu, seitan, and tempeh all have protein, but they differ from animal protein in that they are "cut" with lots of carbs and fat. I am on a protein-sparing modified fast (PSMF) for bodybuilding goals right now, and there are no viable non-animal whole sources of protein (so, excluding pea protein isolate etc.) I can have. Even seitan is only ~81% protein by calories, which is too low. I am targeting 90% calories from protein right now. They are definitely good options, along with lentils (which have a similar problem of having more carbs than protein), for vegetarianism+. But they are not a perfect substitute as you cannot get nearly pure protein from them. They also tend to lack the BCAAs that make up a large portion of muscle. So, you can fulfill most dietary goals purely vegan, but it is harder and more expensive due to limited options.
    - 2mo ago
Barbing 2mo ago
can't run away, fantastic
mock-possum 2mo ago
They don’t taste the same though
voidUpdate 2mo ago
If your lab meat is running away, something has gone very wrong
- ChoGGi 2mo ago
  Nah, I like the taste of fear and adrenaline; give it brains and a source of horror.
ChrisRR 2mo ago
Because I say this as an ex vegetarian, meat tastes good.

by edoceo 2mo ago

Why lab meat? Plants are right here now, require very little electricity, the sun is free, they can't run away, many can be eaten with very little preparation. It's both cheap and easy.

energy123 2mo ago

Because not everyone shares your preference and/or discipline for plants. Lab grown meat doesn't require a planetary scale realignment of moral values and habits.

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
soulofmischief 2mo ago
Some might argue that ignorance or apathy doesn't reduce someone's participation as a consumer in a very inhumane and climate-wrecking meat industry down to simply "preference". I do agree it's unrealistic to expect 8 billion people to change their habits overnight, but we are going to see a massive prisoner's dilemma as resources dwindle until that 8 billion number starts falling.
- energy123 2mo ago
  That's a moral judgement about what words to use that has no bearing on causality. Incentives are never a valid justification but they are almost always an explanation. We should care about explanations when trying to solve problems.
  - soulofmischief 2mo ago
    I agree, designing institutions around incentives is key. But the discussion around factory farms can shaped around ethics and not morals, and I had taken the opportunity to point out that "preference" reads as unwarranted euphemism in the face of the brutality of modern factory farming, and downplays the agency of the individual as a participant. Past that, we are in full agreement that it's more fruitful to solve the problem rather than sit around making judgements.
account42 2mo ago
> Lab grown meat doesn't require a planetary scale realignment of moral values and habits. It absolutely does until it's actually something normal people call "meat" which is still a long long way off.
williamdclt 2mo ago
habits, no. But difficult argument to make that lab-grown meat requires _less_ of a "moral value realignment" than plant-based food?

toshinoriyagi 2mo ago

Various plants (dark leafy greens/cruciferous vegetables) do make up the foundation of a healthy diet, but do not provide significant protein or fats. Meat is very useful from a dietary perspective. You can make a quality vegan/vegetarian diet, but hitting high protein goals for those who are active can be difficult. The majority of vegetarian+ protein options are also high in carbs. Plus, meat is tasty. It makes perfect sense people look forward to lab-grown variants that are ethically sourced and have no adverse health effects.

throwaway2037 2mo ago
> but do not provide significant protein or fats Uh what? Seed oils. Avocados. Tofu / seitan / tempeh.
- toshinoriyagi 2mo ago
  Sure, but a seed oil is not a plant. The oil is extracted from a plant. You can eat all the plants you want, but unless you directly consume the processed extract, you won't be getting much fat. Avocados are a source of healthy fats. However, this still leaves you deficient in EPA. Conversion from ALA is trash, so the only option to my knowledge is seaweed/algae and you would massively over-consume other nutrients trying to hit the DRI for EPA. Your only option is supplementing with algae pills I think. From a quick glance, this is 2-3x as expensive as fish/fish oil. Tofu, seitan, and tempeh all have protein, but they differ from animal protein in that they are "cut" with lots of carbs and fat. I am on a protein-sparing modified fast (PSMF) for bodybuilding goals right now, and there are no viable non-animal whole sources of protein (so, excluding pea protein isolate etc.) I can have. Even seitan is only ~81% protein by calories, which is too low. I am targeting 90% calories from protein right now. They are definitely good options, along with lentils (which have a similar problem of having more carbs than protein), for vegetarianism+. But they are not a perfect substitute as you cannot get nearly pure protein from them. They also tend to lack the BCAAs that make up a large portion of muscle. So, you can fulfill most dietary goals purely vegan, but it is harder and more expensive due to limited options.
  - 2mo ago

Barbing 2mo ago

can't run away, fantastic

mock-possum 2mo ago

They don’t taste the same though

voidUpdate 2mo ago

If your lab meat is running away, something has gone very wrong

ChoGGi 2mo ago
Nah, I like the taste of fear and adrenaline; give it brains and a source of horror.

ChrisRR 2mo ago

Because I say this as an ex vegetarian, meat tastes good.