6 ms·

Author has no clue about what is Democracy and what is secularism. A country can be democratic but not a secularism. Democracy means people chose their own govt

Author has no clue about what is Democracy and what is secularism. A country can be democratic but not a secularism. Democracy means people chose their own govt(Pakistan is also same). Secularism means religion does not matter for the jobs.

nu2ycombinator 14y ago
"For India to appoint a Muslim to be the chief of the country’s intelligence service is a big, big deal." - This is not true. 6 years back Indian president was a Muslim. So in India all it matters is talent not religion.
- daliusd 14y ago
  So please explain this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Mumbai_bombings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Mumbai_bombings ?
  - nu2ycombinator 14y ago
    Indian intelligence failed to stop them. This is nothing to do with being democracy or not. There is 9/11 in USA too.
    - daliusd 14y ago
      What democracy has to do with that sentence at all? We are speaking about religious tension in countries and how it is handled in India and other countries. As well noting that India is doing better here.
      - nu2ycombinator 14y ago
        Exactly my point. It is nothing to do with democracy or secularism, what is your point in mentioning bomb blasts. Entire world is suffering with islam terrorism, unless they are muslim states.
        daliusd 14y ago
        My point is that author is correct pointing that while Muslim has chances to take important positions in government in India that's not common and naturally accepted thing. I found article reasonably weighted and thought out and found strange to see that first comments to be completely not-insightful and not-contributing anything valuable.
- sandGorgon 14y ago
  I know you meant it as an illustrative example, but India has been a liberal democracy ever since it won its independence. We had a Muslim head of state in 1967 (Zakir Hussain). APJ Abdul Kalam - the President you refer to- was one of India's most beloved Presidents because he holds a double Ph. D. At the time he was elected, I think the Indian cabinet had the highest number of Ph. Ds in the world, for political (non-appointed) positions.
daliusd 14y ago
Can country with two big religions be secular democracy?
- eriksank 14y ago
  As long as nobody gets the brilliant idea to start questioning Dharmasastra (Hindu) or Sharia (Muslim), things will probably keep working fine. The day that anybody thinks that they should start democratically re-inventing these things, all bets will be off. I seriously suspect that you would not have to wait too long before hell breaks loose ...
  - negamax 14y ago
    It depends more on how much religious nuts gain weight on either side. I still have to see a single Hindu preacher asking for a Hindu laws in place while it's not uncommon for Muslim preachers to try to preach sharia down the throats. Muslims are therefore considered uneducated and easily lead to violence. They have their own ghettos (much like Europe) and try to run a state within a state. Although, number of Muslims educating their children are rising, specially in cities. And such people have no hatred towards anyone on religious lines. Biggest achievement of India would be to ensure that every child goes to a proper school and get modern education and not some religious BS in early years
    - eriksank 14y ago
      On the long term, it is the religious "nuts" who seem to make approximately all the children. It is the same in Israel with the Haredim, I have noticed. Their progeny is growing exponentially. The meek will apparently again inherit the earth ;-)
danmaz74 14y ago
In western cultures, "Democracy" really means "Liberal democracy" [1]. Separation of church and State is a pillar of Liberal democracy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy
- nfg 14y ago
  So the UK isn't a “democracy” in the western sense then?
  - eriksank 14y ago
    Perhaps we should ask the next Lord Defender of the Faith if he agrees to separations in his church and his state. I wouldn't mind a choicy piece of Wales and Scotland for myselves ;-)
  - abrahamsen 14y ago
    I'm from Denmark, which like UK has a hereditary head of state as well as an official state church. Neither are really consistent with our democratic ideals, and not something we try to encourage when engaging in state building.
  - danmaz74 14y ago
    In practice, the legislative, executive and judiciary powers are separated from the church there too. But formally, yes, that could be a subject of debate.

nu2ycombinator 14y ago

"For India to appoint a Muslim to be the chief of the country’s intelligence service is a big, big deal." - This is not true. 6 years back Indian president was a Muslim. So in India all it matters is talent not religion.

daliusd 14y ago
So please explain this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Mumbai_bombings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Mumbai_bombings ?
- nu2ycombinator 14y ago
  Indian intelligence failed to stop them. This is nothing to do with being democracy or not. There is 9/11 in USA too.
  - daliusd 14y ago
    What democracy has to do with that sentence at all? We are speaking about religious tension in countries and how it is handled in India and other countries. As well noting that India is doing better here.
    - nu2ycombinator 14y ago
      Exactly my point. It is nothing to do with democracy or secularism, what is your point in mentioning bomb blasts. Entire world is suffering with islam terrorism, unless they are muslim states.
      - daliusd 14y ago
        My point is that author is correct pointing that while Muslim has chances to take important positions in government in India that's not common and naturally accepted thing. I found article reasonably weighted and thought out and found strange to see that first comments to be completely not-insightful and not-contributing anything valuable.
sandGorgon 14y ago
I know you meant it as an illustrative example, but India has been a liberal democracy ever since it won its independence. We had a Muslim head of state in 1967 (Zakir Hussain). APJ Abdul Kalam - the President you refer to- was one of India's most beloved Presidents because he holds a double Ph. D. At the time he was elected, I think the Indian cabinet had the highest number of Ph. Ds in the world, for political (non-appointed) positions.

daliusd 14y ago

Can country with two big religions be secular democracy?

eriksank 14y ago
As long as nobody gets the brilliant idea to start questioning Dharmasastra (Hindu) or Sharia (Muslim), things will probably keep working fine. The day that anybody thinks that they should start democratically re-inventing these things, all bets will be off. I seriously suspect that you would not have to wait too long before hell breaks loose ...
- negamax 14y ago
  It depends more on how much religious nuts gain weight on either side. I still have to see a single Hindu preacher asking for a Hindu laws in place while it's not uncommon for Muslim preachers to try to preach sharia down the throats. Muslims are therefore considered uneducated and easily lead to violence. They have their own ghettos (much like Europe) and try to run a state within a state. Although, number of Muslims educating their children are rising, specially in cities. And such people have no hatred towards anyone on religious lines. Biggest achievement of India would be to ensure that every child goes to a proper school and get modern education and not some religious BS in early years
  - eriksank 14y ago
    On the long term, it is the religious "nuts" who seem to make approximately all the children. It is the same in Israel with the Haredim, I have noticed. Their progeny is growing exponentially. The meek will apparently again inherit the earth ;-)

danmaz74 14y ago

In western cultures, "Democracy" really means "Liberal democracy" [1]. Separation of church and State is a pillar of Liberal democracy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

nfg 14y ago
So the UK isn't a “democracy” in the western sense then?
- eriksank 14y ago
  Perhaps we should ask the next Lord Defender of the Faith if he agrees to separations in his church and his state. I wouldn't mind a choicy piece of Wales and Scotland for myselves ;-)
- abrahamsen 14y ago
  I'm from Denmark, which like UK has a hereditary head of state as well as an official state church. Neither are really consistent with our democratic ideals, and not something we try to encourage when engaging in state building.
- danmaz74 14y ago
  In practice, the legislative, executive and judiciary powers are separated from the church there too. But formally, yes, that could be a subject of debate.