4 ms·

The genius idea is not dying of heat stroke. Also AC can be powered by clean energy, like the vaunted French nuclear plants. But I guess that's for right-wing

The genius idea is not dying of heat stroke. Also AC can be powered by clean energy, like the vaunted French nuclear plants. But I guess that's for right-wingers. Enjoy losing more people to heat than the US does to gun violence

PH02 2mo ago
The US gun deaths figure comes from death certificates. The EU heat death figures comes from modelling. I'll leave it to you to work out why that comparison doesn't hold.
- throw-the-towel 2mo ago
  Are we now doing that "died with Covid, not of Covid" shite again?
  - PH02 2mo ago
    I'm not sure what you mean. I'm in the UK we categorized into deaths due to COVID-19 and those who died with COVID-19. If you get hit by a truck while infected with COVID-19 you died because you were hit by a truck. I'm not sure how you would do it any other way.
    - throw-the-towel 2mo ago
      Early during Covid, some people claimed that the government inflated the victim numbers by counting every excess death if the person had Covid before dying, even if they also had a different perfectly valid reason to die. (Think terminal cancer or AIDS.) That was even technically correct -- the worst kind of correct. Of course, you could have had Covid but died of a heart attack. But then they made the leap to saying "hence we don't know if Covid even is very deadly", and at this point it was just pure denialism. Coming back to the heatwave. We know that heat contributes to dangerous health conditions. We know there are excess deaths every time the mercury crosses some threshold. Yes, some of these excess deaths could have been unrelated to the heat. No, this doesn't mean that the stats we have are totally BS.
- scottLobster 2mo ago
  You sure about that? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4d2vv935lo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4d2vv935lo > In a post on X, WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said more than 1,300 excess deaths had been recorded since 21 June "linked to high temperatures in Europe". > On Sunday morning, France's national health ministry said there had been around 1,000 more deaths than expected in the country since Wednesday. https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-3700-excess-deaths/a-77823303 https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37... > At least 3,700 excess deaths have been recorded in France, Belgium and the Netherlands alone as a result of the June heat wave that sent temperatures soaring above 40°C (104°F). Just stop. A lack of European AC is making a negligible difference at best in the fight against climate change and it's killing your people. The models aren't that wrong.
  - PH02 2mo ago
    Yes there are going to be a lot of excess deaths. To be honest anyone who doesn't understand that the number of excess deaths we are seeing now is a fraction of what is going to happen worldwide doesn't understand what is happening. I'm not arguing that isn't happening. I was saying the very widely reported graphs that started this whole 'why don't europeans fit AC everywhere' argument was based on modelling. Your solution is to put AC all over Europe. That won't work because our buildings are not made for AC, the amount of retrofitting required would be insane and it probably wouldn't have a significant impact on excess deaths. Counties like France and Germany have a higher percentage of elderly relative to the USA. These people will be contributing massively to the excess deaths. Your AC solution is not going to be in place fast enough for them.
    - scottLobster 2mo ago
      Portable AC units are widely available, and some even work with the notorious European windows. Even cooling a single room could make a big difference. And the world is getting warmer. More than 90 private jets flew into Italy for Jeff Bezos's wedding, and collectively emitted more carbon for that one wedding than either of us will in our lifetimes. Europe is going to get more deadly heat waves regardless of what any of us here on the ground floor would like. So mass install AC or let the death toll rise further, those are your options.

PH02 2mo ago

The US gun deaths figure comes from death certificates. The EU heat death figures comes from modelling. I'll leave it to you to work out why that comparison doesn't hold.

throw-the-towel 2mo ago
Are we now doing that "died with Covid, not of Covid" shite again?
- PH02 2mo ago
  I'm not sure what you mean. I'm in the UK we categorized into deaths due to COVID-19 and those who died with COVID-19. If you get hit by a truck while infected with COVID-19 you died because you were hit by a truck. I'm not sure how you would do it any other way.
  - throw-the-towel 2mo ago
    Early during Covid, some people claimed that the government inflated the victim numbers by counting every excess death if the person had Covid before dying, even if they also had a different perfectly valid reason to die. (Think terminal cancer or AIDS.) That was even technically correct -- the worst kind of correct. Of course, you could have had Covid but died of a heart attack. But then they made the leap to saying "hence we don't know if Covid even is very deadly", and at this point it was just pure denialism. Coming back to the heatwave. We know that heat contributes to dangerous health conditions. We know there are excess deaths every time the mercury crosses some threshold. Yes, some of these excess deaths could have been unrelated to the heat. No, this doesn't mean that the stats we have are totally BS.
scottLobster 2mo ago
You sure about that? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4d2vv935lo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4d2vv935lo > In a post on X, WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said more than 1,300 excess deaths had been recorded since 21 June "linked to high temperatures in Europe". > On Sunday morning, France's national health ministry said there had been around 1,000 more deaths than expected in the country since Wednesday. https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-3700-excess-deaths/a-77823303 https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37... > At least 3,700 excess deaths have been recorded in France, Belgium and the Netherlands alone as a result of the June heat wave that sent temperatures soaring above 40°C (104°F). Just stop. A lack of European AC is making a negligible difference at best in the fight against climate change and it's killing your people. The models aren't that wrong.
- PH02 2mo ago
  Yes there are going to be a lot of excess deaths. To be honest anyone who doesn't understand that the number of excess deaths we are seeing now is a fraction of what is going to happen worldwide doesn't understand what is happening. I'm not arguing that isn't happening. I was saying the very widely reported graphs that started this whole 'why don't europeans fit AC everywhere' argument was based on modelling. Your solution is to put AC all over Europe. That won't work because our buildings are not made for AC, the amount of retrofitting required would be insane and it probably wouldn't have a significant impact on excess deaths. Counties like France and Germany have a higher percentage of elderly relative to the USA. These people will be contributing massively to the excess deaths. Your AC solution is not going to be in place fast enough for them.
  - scottLobster 2mo ago
    Portable AC units are widely available, and some even work with the notorious European windows. Even cooling a single room could make a big difference. And the world is getting warmer. More than 90 private jets flew into Italy for Jeff Bezos's wedding, and collectively emitted more carbon for that one wedding than either of us will in our lifetimes. Europe is going to get more deadly heat waves regardless of what any of us here on the ground floor would like. So mass install AC or let the death toll rise further, those are your options.