5 ms·

People have been fretting about 'foreigners' taking their jobs for decades and it never really happened. This is all about LLM's. I mean, think about it; just

by davidw 2mo ago

People have been fretting about 'foreigners' taking their jobs for decades and it never really happened. This is all about LLM's. I mean, think about it; just a few short years ago there was a very strong market for software engineers, despite outsourcing and immigration being very much part of the landscape.

mikert89 2mo ago
have you been inside any big tech company? lots of orgs are > 80% foreign.
- davidw 2mo ago
  That's not actually true; people have been complaining about this for decades, and it's never been the zero-sum game that they claim it is. I mean, I wrote this 12 years ago in response to similar discussions on this same site, and in the intervening years, we had a great market for software engineers: https://journal.dedasys.com/2014/12/29/people-places-and-jobs/ https://journal.dedasys.com/2014/12/29/people-places-and-job... What has changed is 1) the zero interest rate environment went away and 2) LLM's.
  - mikert89 2mo ago
    ive worked at multiple FAANG, almost always been the only american on a team of 10. theres some huge push by corporations to deny it to justify shipping in more foreign labor.
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
  - johnnyanmac 2mo ago
    This doesn't explain the whole story because 1) despite the accusations of "overtiring", none of these companies actually have decreased headcount over the last 5-6 years. They have all grown, though perhaps not in North America. 2) LLM's have not been shown to significantly replace current work as of 2026. The most optimistic projects is that it could do maybe 5% of current jobs. That doesn't match the current death in hiring and mass layoffs.
- a34729t 2mo ago
  Yeah my new VP is from a certain country in the eastern hemisphere, and the interviews I've conducted for US-based candidates oddly enough have been 100% of engineers from that same country (say 30 or so in the last 2 years).
  - andriy_koval 2mo ago
    I hope one day there will be huge class action lawsuits and prosecutions given how clearly obvious this issue is.
chaps 2mo ago
Orrrrrr... it could be a complex combination of outsourcing, an over-reliance on degrees, LLMs, a lack of "apprenticeship" mentoring, etc etc etc. I was very fortunate to get a job in a NOC a little bit after high school where I learned things one'd expect to learn in an entry level job. The team I worked on was all about mentorship, learning, and building people to the next level. Haven't seen that attitude elsewhere in my entire career except in the non-profit world where I reside these days. It blows me away that people are surprised that these industries have failed to build entry level positions.
- mattkrause 2mo ago
  I'd also throw in hiring practice. Whatever we're doing (across the board) to find candidates seems....less ideal.
  - johnnyanmac 2mo ago
    given the statistics in ghost jobs, you can argue what we're doing is "nothing".
- davidw 2mo ago
  > outsourcing, an over-reliance on degrees, LLMs, a lack of "apprenticeship" mentoring, Which of those things changed (along with higher interest rates) in the past few years though? All the other variables did not change. They were present 5 years ago and present 10 years ago too. To me that's indicative that those factors are not the cause of a soft market for software engineers in 2026.
  - chaps 2mo ago
    Are you seriously suggesting that ten years of a systemic failure to mentor the new generation hasn't had an impact on the culture of mentorship?
    - davidw 2mo ago
      Are you saying that precise thing changed 10 years ago and hasn't always kind of been with us? I am talking about the weak market for software engineers right now and what caused it.
nsxwolf 2mo ago
My job was just taken by Cognizant, which is technically American, so I guess you're technically right!
johnnyanmac 2mo ago
>just a few short years ago there was a very strong market for software engineers, despite outsourcing and immigration being very much part of the landscape. A lot changed very fast in the last few years. It's not all nor even a major part due to outsourcing/immigration. It's a myriad of factors all colliding at the same time.

by davidw 2mo ago

mikert89 2mo ago

have you been inside any big tech company? lots of orgs are > 80% foreign.

davidw 2mo ago
That's not actually true; people have been complaining about this for decades, and it's never been the zero-sum game that they claim it is. I mean, I wrote this 12 years ago in response to similar discussions on this same site, and in the intervening years, we had a great market for software engineers: https://journal.dedasys.com/2014/12/29/people-places-and-jobs/ https://journal.dedasys.com/2014/12/29/people-places-and-job... What has changed is 1) the zero interest rate environment went away and 2) LLM's.
- mikert89 2mo ago
  ive worked at multiple FAANG, almost always been the only american on a team of 10. theres some huge push by corporations to deny it to justify shipping in more foreign labor.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
- johnnyanmac 2mo ago
  This doesn't explain the whole story because 1) despite the accusations of "overtiring", none of these companies actually have decreased headcount over the last 5-6 years. They have all grown, though perhaps not in North America. 2) LLM's have not been shown to significantly replace current work as of 2026. The most optimistic projects is that it could do maybe 5% of current jobs. That doesn't match the current death in hiring and mass layoffs.
a34729t 2mo ago
Yeah my new VP is from a certain country in the eastern hemisphere, and the interviews I've conducted for US-based candidates oddly enough have been 100% of engineers from that same country (say 30 or so in the last 2 years).
- andriy_koval 2mo ago
  I hope one day there will be huge class action lawsuits and prosecutions given how clearly obvious this issue is.

chaps 2mo ago

Orrrrrr... it could be a complex combination of outsourcing, an over-reliance on degrees, LLMs, a lack of "apprenticeship" mentoring, etc etc etc. I was very fortunate to get a job in a NOC a little bit after high school where I learned things one'd expect to learn in an entry level job. The team I worked on was all about mentorship, learning, and building people to the next level. Haven't seen that attitude elsewhere in my entire career except in the non-profit world where I reside these days. It blows me away that people are surprised that these industries have failed to build entry level positions.

mattkrause 2mo ago
I'd also throw in hiring practice. Whatever we're doing (across the board) to find candidates seems....less ideal.
- johnnyanmac 2mo ago
  given the statistics in ghost jobs, you can argue what we're doing is "nothing".
davidw 2mo ago
> outsourcing, an over-reliance on degrees, LLMs, a lack of "apprenticeship" mentoring, Which of those things changed (along with higher interest rates) in the past few years though? All the other variables did not change. They were present 5 years ago and present 10 years ago too. To me that's indicative that those factors are not the cause of a soft market for software engineers in 2026.
- chaps 2mo ago
  Are you seriously suggesting that ten years of a systemic failure to mentor the new generation hasn't had an impact on the culture of mentorship?
  - davidw 2mo ago
    Are you saying that precise thing changed 10 years ago and hasn't always kind of been with us? I am talking about the weak market for software engineers right now and what caused it.

nsxwolf 2mo ago

My job was just taken by Cognizant, which is technically American, so I guess you're technically right!

johnnyanmac 2mo ago

>just a few short years ago there was a very strong market for software engineers, despite outsourcing and immigration being very much part of the landscape. A lot changed very fast in the last few years. It's not all nor even a major part due to outsourcing/immigration. It's a myriad of factors all colliding at the same time.