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U of M. is doing no favors to its students. While it's a different environment, that's part of growing up. Once you're on your own nobody coddles you and it ca

U of M. is doing no favors to its students. While it's a different environment, that's part of growing up. Once you're on your own nobody coddles you and it can be brutal.

cogman10 2mo ago
What harm exactly do you think giving a single semester reprieve is going to cause these students?
- colpabar 2mo ago
  Won't they need a reprieve next semester since they'll have to go through the same thing?
  - cogman10 2mo ago
    That's the slippery slope fallacy. That's not what's being proposed and not what's going to happen. So again I ask. What's the harm?
- ungreased0675 2mo ago
  Employers thinking a UofM degree is a joke. Hiring practices expanding to include multiple take-home exercises to prove competency. Students not fully learning foundational knowledge they’ll need later because the class is an easy pass.
  - cogman10 2mo ago
    > Employers thinking a UofM degree is a joke. I've never cared about where the degree of someone comes from. You really think and employer is going to look at UofM and say "Oh, they gave their students a 1 semester reprieve, obviously they are of lower quality"? > Hiring practices expanding to include multiple take-home exercises to prove competency. Why would the policy of UofM change the hiring practices of companies that are not UofM? Where's the connection? > Students not fully learning foundational knowledge they’ll need later because the class is an easy pass. This may be a real harm, but ultimately they'll have to learn the foundational knowledge to continue going to UofM. Plenty of students fail to learn foundational knowledge outside of UofM, I know because I had to tutor them.
    - massysett 2mo ago
      > You really think and employer is going to look at UofM and say "Oh, they gave their students a 1 semester reprieve, obviously they are of lower quality"? Yes. This will be evident on the transcript. It won’t reduce a student from “must-hire” to “do not interview.” But it could make a marginal difference when two students are compared. One has all A and the other has all P. If the all A is Ohio State and the all P is Michigan, if I’m otherwise indifferent I might hire Ohio State.
      - cogman10 2mo ago
        > Yes. This will be evident on the transcript. The transcript? Employers aren't pulling transcripts. I've done hiring interviews and reviews, the transcript has never come up. About the only place this could come up is higher education. This seems like you are reaching for straws.
        massysett 2mo ago
        ? I’ve done hiring and we review all undergrad and graduate transcripts every single time, so I am hardly grasping at straws.
  - mitchdoogle 2mo ago
    Few employers will even know this is a thing.
  - UncleMeat 2mo ago
    MIT has this policy. Do employers think that MIT degrees are a joke?
    - nobodyandproud 2mo ago
      Interesting! It looks like MIT, Swarthmore, and Wellesley are the well-known ones so it has precedent. While I still think it's a disservice to the student, I'd be curious to hear from those that lived through this: Both those that attended and graduated and those that had to drop out. For the former I'm guessing there's not much to report. I'd be curious about the latter.
      - UncleMeat 2mo ago
        A friend of mine is a MIT professor. He reports that his students generally strongly support the policy.
- nobodyandproud 2mo ago
  Quite a bit. As a student: Grades are one of the clearest signals on whether you're a good fit for a major or topic you're interested in, you need more work, or you need to trim down the number of classes. Not providing that clear, cumulative signal is a major disservice to the students. Also, UofM is expensive so dragging it benefits only the financials for the school.
  - cogman10 2mo ago
    I think this touches on a real potential harm. I guess my counter is that it'd be hard to make that adjustment after the first semester anyways. Particularly because these will all be intro classes anyways which can all be overly easy. Some of my engineering 3 credit courses really should have been like 6 credits whereas some of my generals 3 credit hours were more like 1 credit. It's hard to know that without getting a feel for the classes and professors.
    - nobodyandproud 2mo ago
      In the sciences and engineering, many of the major-related 101s are important filter classes. It sounds harsh but it’s an important reality check for the student.

U of M. is doing no favors to its students. While it's a different environment, that's part of growing up. Once you're on your own nobody coddles you and it can be brutal.

cogman10 2mo ago

What harm exactly do you think giving a single semester reprieve is going to cause these students?

colpabar 2mo ago
Won't they need a reprieve next semester since they'll have to go through the same thing?
- cogman10 2mo ago
  That's the slippery slope fallacy. That's not what's being proposed and not what's going to happen. So again I ask. What's the harm?
ungreased0675 2mo ago
Employers thinking a UofM degree is a joke. Hiring practices expanding to include multiple take-home exercises to prove competency. Students not fully learning foundational knowledge they’ll need later because the class is an easy pass.
- cogman10 2mo ago
  > Employers thinking a UofM degree is a joke. I've never cared about where the degree of someone comes from. You really think and employer is going to look at UofM and say "Oh, they gave their students a 1 semester reprieve, obviously they are of lower quality"? > Hiring practices expanding to include multiple take-home exercises to prove competency. Why would the policy of UofM change the hiring practices of companies that are not UofM? Where's the connection? > Students not fully learning foundational knowledge they’ll need later because the class is an easy pass. This may be a real harm, but ultimately they'll have to learn the foundational knowledge to continue going to UofM. Plenty of students fail to learn foundational knowledge outside of UofM, I know because I had to tutor them.
  - massysett 2mo ago
    > You really think and employer is going to look at UofM and say "Oh, they gave their students a 1 semester reprieve, obviously they are of lower quality"? Yes. This will be evident on the transcript. It won’t reduce a student from “must-hire” to “do not interview.” But it could make a marginal difference when two students are compared. One has all A and the other has all P. If the all A is Ohio State and the all P is Michigan, if I’m otherwise indifferent I might hire Ohio State.
    - cogman10 2mo ago
      > Yes. This will be evident on the transcript. The transcript? Employers aren't pulling transcripts. I've done hiring interviews and reviews, the transcript has never come up. About the only place this could come up is higher education. This seems like you are reaching for straws.
      - massysett 2mo ago
        ? I’ve done hiring and we review all undergrad and graduate transcripts every single time, so I am hardly grasping at straws.
- mitchdoogle 2mo ago
  Few employers will even know this is a thing.
- UncleMeat 2mo ago
  MIT has this policy. Do employers think that MIT degrees are a joke?
  - nobodyandproud 2mo ago
    Interesting! It looks like MIT, Swarthmore, and Wellesley are the well-known ones so it has precedent. While I still think it's a disservice to the student, I'd be curious to hear from those that lived through this: Both those that attended and graduated and those that had to drop out. For the former I'm guessing there's not much to report. I'd be curious about the latter.
    - UncleMeat 2mo ago
      A friend of mine is a MIT professor. He reports that his students generally strongly support the policy.
nobodyandproud 2mo ago
Quite a bit. As a student: Grades are one of the clearest signals on whether you're a good fit for a major or topic you're interested in, you need more work, or you need to trim down the number of classes. Not providing that clear, cumulative signal is a major disservice to the students. Also, UofM is expensive so dragging it benefits only the financials for the school.
- cogman10 2mo ago
  I think this touches on a real potential harm. I guess my counter is that it'd be hard to make that adjustment after the first semester anyways. Particularly because these will all be intro classes anyways which can all be overly easy. Some of my engineering 3 credit courses really should have been like 6 credits whereas some of my generals 3 credit hours were more like 1 credit. It's hard to know that without getting a feel for the classes and professors.
  - nobodyandproud 2mo ago
    In the sciences and engineering, many of the major-related 101s are important filter classes. It sounds harsh but it’s an important reality check for the student.