3 ms·
In politics, it's very common to use phrasing like "he didn't chose his words wisely, but I agree with his point." as code for: "I'm diplomatically saying I agr
by bkuhn 14y ago
In politics, it's very common to use phrasing like "he didn't chose his words wisely, but I agree with his point." as code for: "I'm diplomatically saying I agree with what he did". I see that the fellow didn't mean it that way, and there was probably a language barrier going on too (I suspect, but don't know for sure, that his native language isn't English), and he was furthermore frustrated with the 140 character format.
Regarding the latter of which, BTW, I was giving him advice on how he might fix his 140 char problem in another parallel thread. We were having two other parallel threads too, on the "salient points" you mention. Look at the time stamps on the dents if you want to confirm all that. All of it happened together. The Internet is a wonderful thing: you can have efficient conversations in parallel in semi-synchronous time. You're analogy treats the whole thing like I stonewalled him on that one issue while refusing to reply on any other issue. The timestamps and threads just don't support your claim there.
I again point out that I didn't resort to name calling and I wasn't disrespectful, and I apologized when I realized that he truly believed he'd already made the statement I was asking him to make. You compare me to @sabdfl above; note that @sabdfl name-called, was disrespectful, and it's not the first time he's done that, either.
Meanwhile, I don't think it's reasonable to ask someone to always respond to everyone on the Internet who comment at them, and I believe it's completely reasonable to filter away people for all sorts of reasons. It seemed that this fellow might have been doing standing up for @sabdfl's outrageous claims. I discussed that fact with him on on thread to get a sense of whether or not he was, while I was nevertheless still responding to his other points another. I admit I got close at one point to shutting down at one point. But, I still read his next clarification and we came to an understanding.
This is an example of people who disagree but are still communicating well and sorting something out. This is an example of useful discourse. I realize you see it as exactly the opposite. I just think you're wrong about that, I'm sorry. I encourage others here to read the whole thread over on identi.ca and decide for themselves which of us is right.
I'm about to to go to bed, and I'm sure I won't have time to respond to you further here, as the odds I'll remember to check this site again -- which I don't normally read -- is pretty low. You can email me if you want to discuss it further.
- jspthrowaway2 14y ago> In politics, it's very common to use phrasing like "he didn't chose his words wisely, but I agree with his point." as code for: "I'm diplomatically saying I agree with what he did". Now I get it. Dealing with the political world for this long has made you treat everything as political by default. The guy was straight talking with you on identi.ca, not making a political statement nor speaking on camera. He wasn't "speaking in code," as you later deduced after going back and forth a few times. Your assumption was for the worst of his argument, not the best, and that you were presumptuous enough to tell him how to "fix" something that you misinterpreted with an unfair base assumption is even more asinine. > I again point out that I didn't resort to name calling and I wasn't disrespectful I know, which is why I ignored this irrelevant statement the first time, because it was a straw man then and still is. I'm not accusing you of name calling nor stooping to the level of those who called you McCarthyists, nor am I accusing you of being disrespectful. I think you shot this guy down fairly hard when he brought up a point with you, and it's that style of argument, the default-hostile world view, that I really get annoyed by out of your camp. You could say I'm bringing this up because I want to have a reasonable conversation with you, and people like you, without spending a few back-and-forths saying something to you the exact way you want it to be said to you. The technology world is not out to get you. We're not speaking in code at your expense. Most people in this audience here on Hacker News are sympathetic to FOSS because a lot of us build our livelihood on it. You do have friends in the world, and I think this guy was trying to be your friend. You've either been trained or trained yourself to regard everybody as an enemy from the get-go, and that's what I'm trying to get across to you. I know that running the FSF has exposed you to a lot of bilious argument against your very existence, but this guy wasn't remotely agreeing with Mark or being political, he was just having a conversation. It took a while for him to get that through to you, and speaking for myself, I would have given up long before he was successful. This is coming from somebody who has built his entire career upon FOSS and believes in its success. You'll often see people say something like "I love FOSS, but its fan club leaves a lot to be desired". Things like this are why. > This is an example of useful discourse. It eventually was. It sure as shit didn't start that way. > I encourage others here to read the whole thread over on identi.ca and decide for themselves which of us is right. I really hate when people speak past me while replying to me. It's dismissive and belittling. > I'm about to to go to bed, and I'm sure I won't have time to respond to you further here, as the odds I'll remember to check this site again -- which I don't normally read -- is pretty low. You can email me if you want to discuss it further. I'm so glad this was edited in after I spent ten minutes carefully crafting a response. What a waste of time.