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For some reason that doesn't make me feel better. If college is supposed to prepare kids for the real world, we should be creating environments that simulate t

by cj 2mo ago

For some reason that doesn't make me feel better. If college is supposed to prepare kids for the real world, we should be creating environments that simulate the real world as much as possible. Creating a consequence free semester is the polar opposite of how the real world works. In the real world, you get a job, and you're on probation for your "first semester" when the scrutiny is at its highest. You don't get the privilege of easing into the job, you're thrown in. Shouldn't be any different for college kids. The safety bubble we're building around kids + young adults is not going to end well.

igorkraw 2mo ago
Genuine take: maybe it would be more efficient for the economy and society, as well as better for everyone involved individuall, to make room for the ease in period as well, with a clearly communicated end towards the same, so people can acclimatize? Speaking as someone who grew up in a slightly more cruel world, but still received way more kindness than previous generations (did not die of previously deadly respiratory complications in childhood, got accepted into gifted children program for enthousiasm, not IQ, got recommendation letters for the same reasons, short sighted, ADHD) in my self evaluation, each time I got a break it spurned me to work harder and try more to "pay it back", and every time I powered through strict evaluation and scrutiny it left scars that overall impede my productivity/would do so if I had not gotten therapy to overcome them . Nature is cruel, but also inefficient. We have long since started building a "rela world" full of safety bubbles that let us thrive. Why not continue with this one?
- pjm331 2mo ago
  Agreed, I dont get the argument “life sucks so school should suck too” How about we work on making things not suck
  - x86_64Ubuntu 2mo ago
    Because that's not reality in the least. And all you are doing is creating a clutch of children/students who have no experience with things that are difficult.
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
- cj 2mo ago
  The majority of US jobs are offered by small businesses. The idea of “ease in” periods is nice, but it’s incredibly challenging when the business is understaffed (and hence hiring) for a specific role. You don’t have a lot of extra bandwidth on the existing team to cover for the new guy while he settles in.
  - igorkraw 2mo ago
    Sure , it's difficult, and not always possible,but maybe we should treat it as what it is (an unfortunate reality) rather than creating false valor. I don't think people are unaware of the reality of real life, and the ones that are won't wake up if you terminate them in college. If we want to make sure, make them do mandatory work Placements instead of the grades, to experience the pressure of real world without risk of career failure
kakacik 2mo ago
I never went through school of any level that tried honestly to prepare me for real world (TM). Absurd academic directions, insisting on stuff that basically nobody ever used regardless of job later, ROTA ad nauseum. Where is communication, some basic psychology, leading, team work, stress management and so on, which is what each of us needs desperately every day? Or ie taxation and social/medical systems, to which each of us exposed extremely directly? It should be the mission of every school, but somehow they all missed that. Given, teachers were often abysmal themselves in these topics, but things can be learned just like other stuff.
enragedcacti 2mo ago
> If college is supposed to prepare kids for the real world, we should be creating environments that simulate the real world as much as possible. Would you take a motorcycle safety course where the first thing they do is chuck you into "simulated" traffic? It feels too obvious to say, but just throwing people in the deep-end isn't necessarily the most consistent or effective teaching tool for every situation.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- cj 2mo ago
  Starting your first semester in college shouldn't feel like "being thrown in the deep end". You just spent 4 years of high school preparing for it! But I agree that kids are awfully unprepared for the real world, so maybe coddling kids into early adulthood is unfortunately necessary? The whole situation makes me very sad.
  - margalabargala 2mo ago
    You don't actually have any idea how different high school and college are, do you? Unless the kid went to boarding school, the environmental change is immense.
    - cj 2mo ago
      I agree that the environmental change is immense and that it's stressful. Do I think a consequence free first semester is needed to address that? No..
      - margalabargala 2mo ago
        I think there's an odd disconnect that a lot of older people have where they forget the goals of institutions, and assume the goals are the experience they remember rather than something else. For example: what would you say is the point of college, generally? Is it learning? Is it producing functional adults? Or is the goal, itself, to accumulate large numbers of grades that are as close to 100 as possible? That last one isn't a goal, it's a means to an end. Human learning is in fact something that can be studied and measured, and not something that was perfected at any point in the last 50 years. If it can be shown that not giving grades the first semester improves the actual goals of learning and adult success, then that's what should be done. If you get over yourself and your "back and my day" and "consequences", you will see that what is being done is what will help create the world you actually want.
krupan 2mo ago
I'm not sure college was ever intended to prepare people for the "real world." College programs start out with "general" education and get more and more focused on a particular area of study the further you go. Colleges teach you how to research deeply and write on those narrow topics. Prep for the real world would teach you how to pick a place to live and take care of it, how to parent, how to get along with neighbors and co-workers, how to do your taxes, save for retirement, how to take care of your brain and body, etc. No college requires classes like that for everyone
BeetleB 2mo ago
> In the real world, you get a job, and you're on probation for your "first semester" when the scrutiny is at its highest. This describes exactly 0 jobs I've had. When you work in a big company, they're pretty gentle with you in the first year. If not, I'd recommend changing companies unless you're getting that much more compensated where you are.

by cj 2mo ago

igorkraw 2mo ago

Genuine take: maybe it would be more efficient for the economy and society, as well as better for everyone involved individuall, to make room for the ease in period as well, with a clearly communicated end towards the same, so people can acclimatize? Speaking as someone who grew up in a slightly more cruel world, but still received way more kindness than previous generations (did not die of previously deadly respiratory complications in childhood, got accepted into gifted children program for enthousiasm, not IQ, got recommendation letters for the same reasons, short sighted, ADHD) in my self evaluation, each time I got a break it spurned me to work harder and try more to "pay it back", and every time I powered through strict evaluation and scrutiny it left scars that overall impede my productivity/would do so if I had not gotten therapy to overcome them . Nature is cruel, but also inefficient. We have long since started building a "rela world" full of safety bubbles that let us thrive. Why not continue with this one?

pjm331 2mo ago
Agreed, I dont get the argument “life sucks so school should suck too” How about we work on making things not suck
- x86_64Ubuntu 2mo ago
  Because that's not reality in the least. And all you are doing is creating a clutch of children/students who have no experience with things that are difficult.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
cj 2mo ago
The majority of US jobs are offered by small businesses. The idea of “ease in” periods is nice, but it’s incredibly challenging when the business is understaffed (and hence hiring) for a specific role. You don’t have a lot of extra bandwidth on the existing team to cover for the new guy while he settles in.
- igorkraw 2mo ago
  Sure , it's difficult, and not always possible,but maybe we should treat it as what it is (an unfortunate reality) rather than creating false valor. I don't think people are unaware of the reality of real life, and the ones that are won't wake up if you terminate them in college. If we want to make sure, make them do mandatory work Placements instead of the grades, to experience the pressure of real world without risk of career failure

kakacik 2mo ago

I never went through school of any level that tried honestly to prepare me for real world (TM). Absurd academic directions, insisting on stuff that basically nobody ever used regardless of job later, ROTA ad nauseum. Where is communication, some basic psychology, leading, team work, stress management and so on, which is what each of us needs desperately every day? Or ie taxation and social/medical systems, to which each of us exposed extremely directly? It should be the mission of every school, but somehow they all missed that. Given, teachers were often abysmal themselves in these topics, but things can be learned just like other stuff.

enragedcacti 2mo ago

> If college is supposed to prepare kids for the real world, we should be creating environments that simulate the real world as much as possible. Would you take a motorcycle safety course where the first thing they do is chuck you into "simulated" traffic? It feels too obvious to say, but just throwing people in the deep-end isn't necessarily the most consistent or effective teaching tool for every situation.

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
cj 2mo ago
Starting your first semester in college shouldn't feel like "being thrown in the deep end". You just spent 4 years of high school preparing for it! But I agree that kids are awfully unprepared for the real world, so maybe coddling kids into early adulthood is unfortunately necessary? The whole situation makes me very sad.
- margalabargala 2mo ago
  You don't actually have any idea how different high school and college are, do you? Unless the kid went to boarding school, the environmental change is immense.
  - cj 2mo ago
    I agree that the environmental change is immense and that it's stressful. Do I think a consequence free first semester is needed to address that? No..
    - margalabargala 2mo ago
      I think there's an odd disconnect that a lot of older people have where they forget the goals of institutions, and assume the goals are the experience they remember rather than something else. For example: what would you say is the point of college, generally? Is it learning? Is it producing functional adults? Or is the goal, itself, to accumulate large numbers of grades that are as close to 100 as possible? That last one isn't a goal, it's a means to an end. Human learning is in fact something that can be studied and measured, and not something that was perfected at any point in the last 50 years. If it can be shown that not giving grades the first semester improves the actual goals of learning and adult success, then that's what should be done. If you get over yourself and your "back and my day" and "consequences", you will see that what is being done is what will help create the world you actually want.

krupan 2mo ago

I'm not sure college was ever intended to prepare people for the "real world." College programs start out with "general" education and get more and more focused on a particular area of study the further you go. Colleges teach you how to research deeply and write on those narrow topics. Prep for the real world would teach you how to pick a place to live and take care of it, how to parent, how to get along with neighbors and co-workers, how to do your taxes, save for retirement, how to take care of your brain and body, etc. No college requires classes like that for everyone

BeetleB 2mo ago

> In the real world, you get a job, and you're on probation for your "first semester" when the scrutiny is at its highest. This describes exactly 0 jobs I've had. When you work in a big company, they're pretty gentle with you in the first year. If not, I'd recommend changing companies unless you're getting that much more compensated where you are.