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Those fossil fuels emit what otherwise wouldn't be available in the carbon cycle. A cow that's fed on gras and farts emits nothing that that gras didn't pick u

Those fossil fuels emit what otherwise wouldn't be available in the carbon cycle. A cow that's fed on gras and farts emits nothing that that gras didn't pick up and contributes virtually nothing to climate change in the long term.

lotsofpulp 2mo ago
I imagine the fertilizers used for the grass to support the quantity and quality of the cows’ output require quite a bit of fossil fuels. Otherwise, I wonder if non fertilizer supported grass could support sufficient cows to satiate demand (which has not even peaked yet).
- modo_mario 2mo ago
  Oh true and we consequently need to eat less cow meat, more different meat and/or have less people. but focusing on that is shifting blame in an innefectual way of course. Pointing at cow farts puts the pressure on the individual and seeks to dampen effects in the short term. Pump up less or no fossil fuels with actual long term thinking and those fertilisers will automatically become more expensive. At that point tho our oversized animal herd becomes harder to support and beef becomes automatically a lot more expensive whilst at the same time the manure becomes more important.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- ZeroGravitas 2mo ago
  Always worth noting that the fertilizers don't require fossil fuels, just currently use them as they are cheaper if you ignore the externalities and alternatives haven't got the scale yet. Pro-fossil fuel types will regularly claim fossil fuels are a hard requirement for fertilizer.
  - lotsofpulp 2mo ago
    I have often read the Haber-Bosch process credited with making the population explosion and drastic decreases in hunger possible, making it one of the most impactful discoveries in human history.
    - ZeroGravitas 2mo ago
      What you've said is ambigious in the context of replying to my point. Many people think Haber-Bosch requires fossil fuels as input. It doesn't. Haber-Bosch requires hydrogen. Currently this is nearly always fossil fuel derived and the carbon parts that are not needed are dumped into the atmosphere. Venting is not required, just cheap and neither is using hydrogen from a fossil source.
      - modo_mario 2mo ago
        What is cheap and what is expensive in this context tho? Presumably we don't want to be using blue hydrogen forever but if the alternative is sufficiently harder to get (if i remember well hydrogen isn't exactly winning the energy war tho it's better if you're not turning it backinto electricity. It's also many orders of magnitudes away from what we'd need for current haber bosh processes) then that still puts incredible strain on the food supply. It may be that it just can't compete with the nitrogen from...chicken shit and some better agricultural approaches..
tempfile 2mo ago
> A cow that's fed on gras and farts emits nothing that that gras didn't pick up Sorry to say, this is a very basic misunderstanding of chemistry. Methane is produced by the cow from carbohydrates in the grass. It is not present in grass, and the grass did not get it from the air. If we stopped producing methane in this way, no other process would replace it and the planet would cool down.

lotsofpulp 2mo ago

I imagine the fertilizers used for the grass to support the quantity and quality of the cows’ output require quite a bit of fossil fuels. Otherwise, I wonder if non fertilizer supported grass could support sufficient cows to satiate demand (which has not even peaked yet).

modo_mario 2mo ago
Oh true and we consequently need to eat less cow meat, more different meat and/or have less people. but focusing on that is shifting blame in an innefectual way of course. Pointing at cow farts puts the pressure on the individual and seeks to dampen effects in the short term. Pump up less or no fossil fuels with actual long term thinking and those fertilisers will automatically become more expensive. At that point tho our oversized animal herd becomes harder to support and beef becomes automatically a lot more expensive whilst at the same time the manure becomes more important.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
ZeroGravitas 2mo ago
Always worth noting that the fertilizers don't require fossil fuels, just currently use them as they are cheaper if you ignore the externalities and alternatives haven't got the scale yet. Pro-fossil fuel types will regularly claim fossil fuels are a hard requirement for fertilizer.
- lotsofpulp 2mo ago
  I have often read the Haber-Bosch process credited with making the population explosion and drastic decreases in hunger possible, making it one of the most impactful discoveries in human history.
  - ZeroGravitas 2mo ago
    What you've said is ambigious in the context of replying to my point. Many people think Haber-Bosch requires fossil fuels as input. It doesn't. Haber-Bosch requires hydrogen. Currently this is nearly always fossil fuel derived and the carbon parts that are not needed are dumped into the atmosphere. Venting is not required, just cheap and neither is using hydrogen from a fossil source.
    - modo_mario 2mo ago
      What is cheap and what is expensive in this context tho? Presumably we don't want to be using blue hydrogen forever but if the alternative is sufficiently harder to get (if i remember well hydrogen isn't exactly winning the energy war tho it's better if you're not turning it backinto electricity. It's also many orders of magnitudes away from what we'd need for current haber bosh processes) then that still puts incredible strain on the food supply. It may be that it just can't compete with the nitrogen from...chicken shit and some better agricultural approaches..

tempfile 2mo ago

> A cow that's fed on gras and farts emits nothing that that gras didn't pick up Sorry to say, this is a very basic misunderstanding of chemistry. Methane is produced by the cow from carbohydrates in the grass. It is not present in grass, and the grass did not get it from the air. If we stopped producing methane in this way, no other process would replace it and the planet would cool down.