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I'm a broken record on this, but I'd like to reiterate: 1. Academic ethics is the theoretical study of what you can get away with. (Law is the applied branch).

I'm a broken record on this, but I'd like to reiterate: 1. Academic ethics is the theoretical study of what you can get away with. (Law is the applied branch). Professors in ethics are not experts at being good, or knowing what is good, they're experts in how to get away with things. If you want an expert in being good, you need a saint, not an academic studying ethics. Saints are in short supply. 2. That said, ethics academics can still be decent. They don't have to be sanctimonious corporate shills . However, an "ethics expert" who hasn't threatened to quit and gone through with it at least once, should be assumed to be one. I respect those who quit - or, at least, I respect them more. I wonder if it's more a reflection of the people, or of the state of the industry, that the list of (AI) ethics experts who have quit in protest is getting long.

iamflimflam1 2mo ago
People confuse morals with ethics. It can be perfectly acceptable, ethically, to do something that is morally reprehensible.
- impendia 2mo ago
  How are you distinguishing them? I had the impression they were essentially synonyms, and this was borne out by two university courses in philosophy which I took. That said, googling "morals vs ethics" turns up quite an interesting mess. A variety of contrasting perspectives showed up: - Ethics come from an external source, whereas morals come from within - Ethics are rational and structured, whereas morals are more emotional - Ethics is a philosophy or code of behavior, whereas morals refers to beliefs and conduct - Ethics and morals are used interchangeably It seems nobody agrees on what the words mean. Which, on reflection, tracks. For me, the idea of an HR training session on ethics is laughable, but for someone who thinks of the word differently it could certainly make sense.
  - tokai 2mo ago
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  - wavemode 2mo ago
    Yeah it's interesting how in some contexts they're interchangeable yet, culturally we very often use the words differently. Personally I tend to feel like your second bullet - ethics are based on rules whereas morals are based on emotions.
    - impendia 2mo ago
      Guess I got spoiled by reading Kant in one of my college classes. He was all about trying to describe morals based on rules. That said, picture someone killing a kitten and someone else killing a cockroach. One could prevaricate all day with highbrow reasons for why the first is monstrous and the second is perfectly moral -- but honestly, for most people, I suspect it comes down to the fact that kittens are cute and cockroaches aren't.
      - vintermann 2mo ago
        Kant would say that the moral harm there isn't to the animal, which isn't a moral subject, but to you since you may be undermining your instinct not to hurt things that look like you (big eyed kittens), making it easier to hurt people. Possibly indulging in your instinct to destroy things which disgust you (skittering cockroaches) also makes it easier to hurt people. So best not to do either unless you have a pretty good reason.
mlrtime 2mo ago
Thank you for this, there is a a lot of speculation in this thread [Not surprisingly] but very little on the definitions, objective goals. Maybe I'm the one that's uneducated in this specific field, but I don't see anyone talking about what this actually means other than "be good".
cowpig 2mo ago
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iamflimflam1 2mo ago

People confuse morals with ethics. It can be perfectly acceptable, ethically, to do something that is morally reprehensible.

impendia 2mo ago
How are you distinguishing them? I had the impression they were essentially synonyms, and this was borne out by two university courses in philosophy which I took. That said, googling "morals vs ethics" turns up quite an interesting mess. A variety of contrasting perspectives showed up: - Ethics come from an external source, whereas morals come from within - Ethics are rational and structured, whereas morals are more emotional - Ethics is a philosophy or code of behavior, whereas morals refers to beliefs and conduct - Ethics and morals are used interchangeably It seems nobody agrees on what the words mean. Which, on reflection, tracks. For me, the idea of an HR training session on ethics is laughable, but for someone who thinks of the word differently it could certainly make sense.
- tokai 2mo ago
  [dead]
- wavemode 2mo ago
  Yeah it's interesting how in some contexts they're interchangeable yet, culturally we very often use the words differently. Personally I tend to feel like your second bullet - ethics are based on rules whereas morals are based on emotions.
  - impendia 2mo ago
    Guess I got spoiled by reading Kant in one of my college classes. He was all about trying to describe morals based on rules. That said, picture someone killing a kitten and someone else killing a cockroach. One could prevaricate all day with highbrow reasons for why the first is monstrous and the second is perfectly moral -- but honestly, for most people, I suspect it comes down to the fact that kittens are cute and cockroaches aren't.
    - vintermann 2mo ago
      Kant would say that the moral harm there isn't to the animal, which isn't a moral subject, but to you since you may be undermining your instinct not to hurt things that look like you (big eyed kittens), making it easier to hurt people. Possibly indulging in your instinct to destroy things which disgust you (skittering cockroaches) also makes it easier to hurt people. So best not to do either unless you have a pretty good reason.

mlrtime 2mo ago

Thank you for this, there is a a lot of speculation in this thread [Not surprisingly] but very little on the definitions, objective goals. Maybe I'm the one that's uneducated in this specific field, but I don't see anyone talking about what this actually means other than "be good".

cowpig 2mo ago

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