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The ones that aren't competitive don't have the ultra-competitive dynamics described above. Not sure what your point is. That still doesn't mean they're not "f

The ones that aren't competitive don't have the ultra-competitive dynamics described above. Not sure what your point is. That still doesn't mean they're not "for the elites." Universities are for people striving for upward mobility, i.e. to get into or maintain membership in the elite tiers of society. Also there is (obviously) significant variation in the upper end of the elite and the lower end.

raddan 3mo ago
More than a third of the US population has a college degree. [1] When you consider the fact that 20% of the US population are children [2] that means that roughly half of the eligible US population has a college degree. If “half” is elite, then I’m not sure what “elite” means, because it’s not very exclusive. > Not sure what your point is. Well, you said > All universities are for the elites. And then I countered that, actually, many are not selective. I am asking you to reconsider your statement. In reality, many college programs confer _skills_, not _status_. This narrative that colleges are for the elites is demonstrably untrue, runs counter to the founding mission of many of them, and strikes me as sour grapes. I know because I was one of the kids who struggled to afford college, went to a public one where I learned _skills_, which I then leveraged into a satisfying career. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_... [2] https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2024/comm/under-18-population.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat...
- estearum 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - neuroticnews25 3mo ago
    > All universities are for the elites. I would love for that not to be the case What would have to change for you to declare it's not the case?
    - estearum 3mo ago
      The costs would have to go down significantly. And I don't just mean the direct price to students – even public universities are extremely costly overall. It costs ~$55k/year to educate a student at UMich. That's more than half of the median US family's income. And UMich is a massive success story. Excellent academic output at a relatively great price – but even there the actual cost would bankrupt a normal American family. That's a lot of money to spend educating someone into a non-elite trajectory in life, no? Never mind the opportunity cost of 4 years where one could be acquiring direct skills in whatever job they're going into?

raddan 3mo ago

More than a third of the US population has a college degree. [1] When you consider the fact that 20% of the US population are children [2] that means that roughly half of the eligible US population has a college degree. If “half” is elite, then I’m not sure what “elite” means, because it’s not very exclusive. > Not sure what your point is. Well, you said > All universities are for the elites. And then I countered that, actually, many are not selective. I am asking you to reconsider your statement. In reality, many college programs confer _skills_, not _status_. This narrative that colleges are for the elites is demonstrably untrue, runs counter to the founding mission of many of them, and strikes me as sour grapes. I know because I was one of the kids who struggled to afford college, went to a public one where I learned _skills_, which I then leveraged into a satisfying career. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_... [2] https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2024/comm/under-18-population.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat...

estearum 3mo ago
[flagged]
- neuroticnews25 3mo ago
  > All universities are for the elites. I would love for that not to be the case What would have to change for you to declare it's not the case?
  - estearum 3mo ago
    The costs would have to go down significantly. And I don't just mean the direct price to students – even public universities are extremely costly overall. It costs ~$55k/year to educate a student at UMich. That's more than half of the median US family's income. And UMich is a massive success story. Excellent academic output at a relatively great price – but even there the actual cost would bankrupt a normal American family. That's a lot of money to spend educating someone into a non-elite trajectory in life, no? Never mind the opportunity cost of 4 years where one could be acquiring direct skills in whatever job they're going into?