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Whenever I point out (in agreement with your statement) that the idea that the left and the right are somehow equally bad is a kind of fantasy on HN I usually g

by CSSer 2mo ago

Whenever I point out (in agreement with your statement) that the idea that the left and the right are somehow equally bad is a kind of fantasy on HN I usually get downvoted. People seem very committed to "shades of gray", moderate thinking to the point that it's viewed as always correct, which is well, just wrong. Yeah, often things are more complicated than they appear, but I find it almost hilarious how often you can't do that in American politics. And for the record I'm definitely not saying the left is somehow perfect. Obviously the left is a bit of a mess too. It's just that they're not the same kinds of messes across party lines.

antisthenes 2mo ago
> People seem very committed to "shades of gray", moderate thinking to the point that it's viewed as always correct, which is well, just wrong. > And for the record I'm definitely not saying the left is somehow perfect. Obviously the left is a bit of a mess too. It's just that they're not the same kinds of messes across party lines. Seems like you've fallen to the same fallacy within the same paragraph, which is quite ironic.
- CSSer 2mo ago
  “Not the same kind of mess” breaks the comparison, so… no.
brazukadev 2mo ago
the thing is that the "left" in the US (and then on HN) have almost no political representation. The Democrats aren't left, just the leftest available. They aren't better than the Republicans at all.
- CSSer 2mo ago
  Despite partial agreement, you’ve only reinforced my point as far as I’m concerned ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- wolrah 2mo ago
  > They aren't better than the Republicans at all. This is exactly the kind of thing the parent poster was talking about. The Democrats certainly aren't left, and they're not great, but we live in a world where the Republican party ranges between refusing to condemn and openly supporting white nationalism, gloats about making trans people's lives worse, encourages police to use unnecessary force, etc. even before we get in to the impacts of their economic policies. Despite being a massive disappointment as far as actually making positive changes, one is still obviously miles better than the other because they're not trying to drive the car the wrong way as fast as possible. Claiming that the two major US parties are no different requires willfully ignoring a lot of bad stuff that one party does for which there is no comparison on the other side. There are absolutely specific issues on which there is often no meaningful difference but as a whole there is a universe of difference.
HeyLaughingBoy 2mo ago
Showing my age, about 35 years ago, someone (wish I remember who, but google probably knows), wrote an article in Analog magazine called "The Dogma of Otherness" that spoke to the tendency of a certain demographic to always try to understand different perspectives, even when those perspectives were objectively hostile. Some people just can't not think in shades of gray.

by CSSer 2mo ago

antisthenes 2mo ago

> People seem very committed to "shades of gray", moderate thinking to the point that it's viewed as always correct, which is well, just wrong. > And for the record I'm definitely not saying the left is somehow perfect. Obviously the left is a bit of a mess too. It's just that they're not the same kinds of messes across party lines. Seems like you've fallen to the same fallacy within the same paragraph, which is quite ironic.

CSSer 2mo ago
“Not the same kind of mess” breaks the comparison, so… no.

brazukadev 2mo ago

the thing is that the "left" in the US (and then on HN) have almost no political representation. The Democrats aren't left, just the leftest available. They aren't better than the Republicans at all.

CSSer 2mo ago
Despite partial agreement, you’ve only reinforced my point as far as I’m concerned ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
wolrah 2mo ago
> They aren't better than the Republicans at all. This is exactly the kind of thing the parent poster was talking about. The Democrats certainly aren't left, and they're not great, but we live in a world where the Republican party ranges between refusing to condemn and openly supporting white nationalism, gloats about making trans people's lives worse, encourages police to use unnecessary force, etc. even before we get in to the impacts of their economic policies. Despite being a massive disappointment as far as actually making positive changes, one is still obviously miles better than the other because they're not trying to drive the car the wrong way as fast as possible. Claiming that the two major US parties are no different requires willfully ignoring a lot of bad stuff that one party does for which there is no comparison on the other side. There are absolutely specific issues on which there is often no meaningful difference but as a whole there is a universe of difference.

HeyLaughingBoy 2mo ago

Showing my age, about 35 years ago, someone (wish I remember who, but google probably knows), wrote an article in Analog magazine called "The Dogma of Otherness" that spoke to the tendency of a certain demographic to always try to understand different perspectives, even when those perspectives were objectively hostile. Some people just can't not think in shades of gray.