3 ms·

No this is bad logic. Flock is absolutely responsible and they should not be releasing or selling products that are this poorly made. Saying that the responsib

by shimman 2mo ago

No this is bad logic. Flock is absolutely responsible and they should not be releasing or selling products that are this poorly made. Saying that the responsibility is only on the user is extremely myopic. It's also dismissing the role Flock has in how they make and design their software. If they can't handle this maybe they should be disbanded as a company or nationalized for better public control.

fluidcruft 2mo ago
The flock cameras were clearly misused. Misuse is 100% user error.
- shimman 2mo ago
  Then you should design systems to ensure this type of user error doesn't happen. I'm sorry but this is software and all these excuses are straight up pathetic. If you don't know how to design a system to prevent this, DON'T MAKE IT! Good grief our industry is absolutely pathetic with these excuses.
  - fluidcruft 2mo ago
    Did you actually read the article? It's like you are demanding a car to not drive when you push the gas pedal.
    - shimman 2mo ago
      No it's more like demanding crumple zones, seat belts, and third brake lights. Just because you have zero standards or ethics does not make this acceptable at all. This was a purely created system that was purposely designed exactly for these outcomes. You do not have to create such a system. There can be more accountability. Have standards please. This is impacting real human lives here because you refuse to have standards.
      - fluidcruft 2mo ago
        The article is about how the operator of the system failed to correct the targeting after the first event so the Flock cameras found the same car a second time. If your point is that pulling her over at gunpoint is a flawed procedure that's valid. But that has nothing to do with anything Flock cameras are doing.
        _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
        As sophacles put it so well: "Flock amplifies existing bugs. Sounds like Flock is the error." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49262204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49262204
        shimman 2mo ago
        Dude the Flock cameras created this outcome. This is why the profession needs to have licensing and civilians should be able to sue said software devs for this amount of negligence.
lukan 2mo ago
"Flock is absolutely responsible and they should not be releasing or selling products that are this poorly made." I am not a fan of flock, nor police surveillance state, but what could they have done better here? "Milwaukee police later admitted the alert should have been cleared out of the system days earlier, but an employee simply forgot to remove it. " The system seemed to work as intended - that numberplate was flagged for investigation with homicide - and gave the alarm as intented, nothing more. The problem was wrong data given to them by humans.
- JoshTriplett 2mo ago
  > I am not a fan of flock, nor police surveillance state, but what could they have done better here? Flock should stop existing. I hope people help them with that, enthusiastically.
  - genewitch 2mo ago
    don't worry, Axon wants to put all 90,000 CCTV cameras into a database for dragnets, too. And i'm sure there will be startups, possibly even mentioned here, that want the same thing. There's a lot of money in cyberstalking and real stalking. see: Facebook's valuation
  - nickthegreek 2mo ago
    Legislation is how that happens. There is no other way. And these stories are what help get that ball rolling in the direction we want.
    - esseph 2mo ago
      > Legislation is how that happens. There is no other way. There are plenty of ways if you are creative enough. Somebody could start putting Flock executive license plates in with erroneous police data.
- nogridbag 2mo ago
  Yeah I'm confused. The title of the article is wrong. There was no "Flock Camera Glitch" according to the article. The human in the loop did not properly delete an invalid license plate number from one of the databases the flock system checks against. The issue issues are with: 1. Human in the loop 2. Third party database police use for homicide info 3. Police response I don't see what the license plate reading technology has to do with any of this. It seems like the only thing working reliably.
daedrdev 2mo ago
Them is flock responsible for reducing auto thefts and should be counted too?

by shimman 2mo ago

fluidcruft 2mo ago

The flock cameras were clearly misused. Misuse is 100% user error.

shimman 2mo ago
Then you should design systems to ensure this type of user error doesn't happen. I'm sorry but this is software and all these excuses are straight up pathetic. If you don't know how to design a system to prevent this, DON'T MAKE IT! Good grief our industry is absolutely pathetic with these excuses.
- fluidcruft 2mo ago
  Did you actually read the article? It's like you are demanding a car to not drive when you push the gas pedal.
  - shimman 2mo ago
    No it's more like demanding crumple zones, seat belts, and third brake lights. Just because you have zero standards or ethics does not make this acceptable at all. This was a purely created system that was purposely designed exactly for these outcomes. You do not have to create such a system. There can be more accountability. Have standards please. This is impacting real human lives here because you refuse to have standards.
    - fluidcruft 2mo ago
      The article is about how the operator of the system failed to correct the targeting after the first event so the Flock cameras found the same car a second time. If your point is that pulling her over at gunpoint is a flawed procedure that's valid. But that has nothing to do with anything Flock cameras are doing.
      - _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
        As sophacles put it so well: "Flock amplifies existing bugs. Sounds like Flock is the error." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49262204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49262204
      - shimman 2mo ago
        Dude the Flock cameras created this outcome. This is why the profession needs to have licensing and civilians should be able to sue said software devs for this amount of negligence.

lukan 2mo ago

"Flock is absolutely responsible and they should not be releasing or selling products that are this poorly made." I am not a fan of flock, nor police surveillance state, but what could they have done better here? "Milwaukee police later admitted the alert should have been cleared out of the system days earlier, but an employee simply forgot to remove it. " The system seemed to work as intended - that numberplate was flagged for investigation with homicide - and gave the alarm as intented, nothing more. The problem was wrong data given to them by humans.

JoshTriplett 2mo ago
> I am not a fan of flock, nor police surveillance state, but what could they have done better here? Flock should stop existing. I hope people help them with that, enthusiastically.
- genewitch 2mo ago
  don't worry, Axon wants to put all 90,000 CCTV cameras into a database for dragnets, too. And i'm sure there will be startups, possibly even mentioned here, that want the same thing. There's a lot of money in cyberstalking and real stalking. see: Facebook's valuation
- nickthegreek 2mo ago
  Legislation is how that happens. There is no other way. And these stories are what help get that ball rolling in the direction we want.
  - esseph 2mo ago
    > Legislation is how that happens. There is no other way. There are plenty of ways if you are creative enough. Somebody could start putting Flock executive license plates in with erroneous police data.
nogridbag 2mo ago
Yeah I'm confused. The title of the article is wrong. There was no "Flock Camera Glitch" according to the article. The human in the loop did not properly delete an invalid license plate number from one of the databases the flock system checks against. The issue issues are with: 1. Human in the loop 2. Third party database police use for homicide info 3. Police response I don't see what the license plate reading technology has to do with any of this. It seems like the only thing working reliably.

daedrdev 2mo ago

Them is flock responsible for reducing auto thefts and should be counted too?