3 ms·

To those saying this is soft: https://registrar.mit.edu/classes-grades-evaluations/grades/grading-policies https://registrar.mit.edu/classes-grades-evaluations/

by ilc 2mo ago

To those saying this is soft: https://registrar.mit.edu/classes-grades-evaluations/grades/grading-policies https://registrar.mit.edu/classes-grades-evaluations/grades/... If you want to say MIT is soft. Feel free.

hodgesrm 2mo ago
Michigan also dropped their mandate for ACT / SAT to obtain admission. So, yes, I would say that's pretty broken. Combined with systematic grade inflation American universities as a whole are removing any real feedback about student preparation, level of effort, or ability.
- culi 2mo ago
  The UC system and many other of the top universities in the country have also stopped looking at SAT scores. Growing up with no one in my family having gone to college I had no idea how any of this stuff worked or anybody to tell me its important. Eventually I moved to a middle class suburb and saw kids hire private tutors for it. Meanwhile I remember 2 days before I had mine scheduled and had to find someone to beg to drive me there. I'm quite thankful that universities acknowledge how silly it is to assess a student's aptitudes from a single test score like that. I think personal essays and a more holistic assessment is a great alternative but I'm worried about the LLM age and the limits it introduces to that as well. Perhaps interviews are the future. It would certainly better prepare students for the real world
  - criddell 2mo ago
    I'm a fan of selection by lottery for kids that can clear some reasonable bar.
    - ghaff 2mo ago
      The current system is probably closer to that than a lot of people would like to admit.
  - SideQuark 2mo ago
    > The UC system and many other of the top universities in the country have also stopped looking at SAT scores. Which led to a spectacular failure of incoming students to do basic math, lead to massive increases in failures in first year math courses. Maybe removing signal loses knowledge about who is ready for standard classes?
  - zwily 2mo ago
    And UC professors are begging them to unwind that and go back to ACT/SAT.
  - frollogaston 2mo ago
    It's much cheaper for a smart student to take the SAT than all the alternative ways to stand out. Unless the school just goes by essay, which as we've learned is either lottery or codeword for discrimination, and then they get students who can't deal with college.
- t3hTao 2mo ago
  If people were praising American education, this wouldn't be an issue. But at least k12 is heavily criticized.
- chasd00 2mo ago
  ACT/SAT is still needed for merit based scholarships though so if you fall in the income bracket between homeless and owning your own island those tests are very very important.
  - frollogaston 2mo ago
    You don't get any aid once you're like upper middle class
- frollogaston 2mo ago
  Oh so that's what this is about. Yeah they need to undo that, and also undo this change.
samiwami 2mo ago
Pass/No Record is one of MITs best ideas for undergrads (that and S^3). It lets you actually focus on getting acclimated and into the groove without being worried about the difference between an A and a B.
tzs 2mo ago
Caltech, too. It was the entire first year when I was there but they have since changed to to the first two terms then normal grades for third term. However, Caltech and MIT have a reason for this that probably doesn't apply to a large (35000 undergraduate) public university like UM. Caltech, MIT, and UM all have incoming classes that did very well in high school. Around 88% of the UM class was in the top 10% of high school. It is 96+% for Caltech and MIT. At all three most students will be going from having been one of the top students at every school they have attended to a school where they are more average. This drop on average will be bigger at Caltech and MIT because their students are clustered more tightly toward the top of their high school class. Another thing that makes the drop bigger at Caltech (and MIT?) is that UM has a way more flexible schedule. For example if you take physics in your first year, they have I believe three different courses for that. One if for people majoring in life sciences and emphasizes the physics most useful in those areas. Another is for engineers and others doing practical applications. It is more rigorous. The third is for physics majors. Compare to Caltech. First, there is no "if you take physics". It is a first year requirement. Second, there is just one course. Go to Caltech to major in English (which does occasionally happen! [1]) and your first year you are taking the same required physics and math courses that people there for physics and math are taking. Third, because admissions specifically looked for people with very strong math/science ability, the professors don't have to slow down. Those courses cram a lot into a short time compared to even the courses meant for people majoring in their subject at less specialized schools. The net effect is that for a top high school student Caltech and MIT are much bigger academic shocks than UM because even though at UM you can find comparable courses structural differences due to its size and its much bigger number of students mean it doesn't make you take a bunch of rigorous courses right from the start at an insane pace. [1] It is rare. The reasons some have done it include: • They intend to be science writers or science journalists. • They intend to go to medical school. Medical school admissions committees like English majors and they like a hard science background. • They intend to go to law school. An English major with a serious hard science education and a law degree is a good fit for patent law or for going into science policy work.
keeda 2mo ago
Coincidentally just last week a relative recounted a conversation with someone who used to be a student counselor (or psychiatrist?) at MIT who said MIT should be even softer on students. WTF, right? The dynamic, the counselor explained, is that MIT is already extremely hyper-competitive to get into and so it already selects for students who are very self-driven and competitive. Hence they tend to take on a much harder workload than they can handle, especially because MIT courses are no joke either no matter how smart you are. This causes very high levels of stress amongst a large portion of the student body. The counselor hence wished MIT had even softer policies to make it easier for students to walk away from courses with no repercussions.
frollogaston 2mo ago
Everything I've heard about MIT is that the school itself is softer than others, but the students are very competitive, which makes it actually hard. Then there are Ivies and Stanford which are just soft.

by ilc 2mo ago

hodgesrm 2mo ago

Michigan also dropped their mandate for ACT / SAT to obtain admission. So, yes, I would say that's pretty broken. Combined with systematic grade inflation American universities as a whole are removing any real feedback about student preparation, level of effort, or ability.

culi 2mo ago
The UC system and many other of the top universities in the country have also stopped looking at SAT scores. Growing up with no one in my family having gone to college I had no idea how any of this stuff worked or anybody to tell me its important. Eventually I moved to a middle class suburb and saw kids hire private tutors for it. Meanwhile I remember 2 days before I had mine scheduled and had to find someone to beg to drive me there. I'm quite thankful that universities acknowledge how silly it is to assess a student's aptitudes from a single test score like that. I think personal essays and a more holistic assessment is a great alternative but I'm worried about the LLM age and the limits it introduces to that as well. Perhaps interviews are the future. It would certainly better prepare students for the real world
- criddell 2mo ago
  I'm a fan of selection by lottery for kids that can clear some reasonable bar.
  - ghaff 2mo ago
    The current system is probably closer to that than a lot of people would like to admit.
- SideQuark 2mo ago
  > The UC system and many other of the top universities in the country have also stopped looking at SAT scores. Which led to a spectacular failure of incoming students to do basic math, lead to massive increases in failures in first year math courses. Maybe removing signal loses knowledge about who is ready for standard classes?
- zwily 2mo ago
  And UC professors are begging them to unwind that and go back to ACT/SAT.
- frollogaston 2mo ago
  It's much cheaper for a smart student to take the SAT than all the alternative ways to stand out. Unless the school just goes by essay, which as we've learned is either lottery or codeword for discrimination, and then they get students who can't deal with college.
t3hTao 2mo ago
If people were praising American education, this wouldn't be an issue. But at least k12 is heavily criticized.
chasd00 2mo ago
ACT/SAT is still needed for merit based scholarships though so if you fall in the income bracket between homeless and owning your own island those tests are very very important.
- frollogaston 2mo ago
  You don't get any aid once you're like upper middle class
frollogaston 2mo ago
Oh so that's what this is about. Yeah they need to undo that, and also undo this change.

samiwami 2mo ago

Pass/No Record is one of MITs best ideas for undergrads (that and S^3). It lets you actually focus on getting acclimated and into the groove without being worried about the difference between an A and a B.

tzs 2mo ago

Caltech, too. It was the entire first year when I was there but they have since changed to to the first two terms then normal grades for third term. However, Caltech and MIT have a reason for this that probably doesn't apply to a large (35000 undergraduate) public university like UM. Caltech, MIT, and UM all have incoming classes that did very well in high school. Around 88% of the UM class was in the top 10% of high school. It is 96+% for Caltech and MIT. At all three most students will be going from having been one of the top students at every school they have attended to a school where they are more average. This drop on average will be bigger at Caltech and MIT because their students are clustered more tightly toward the top of their high school class. Another thing that makes the drop bigger at Caltech (and MIT?) is that UM has a way more flexible schedule. For example if you take physics in your first year, they have I believe three different courses for that. One if for people majoring in life sciences and emphasizes the physics most useful in those areas. Another is for engineers and others doing practical applications. It is more rigorous. The third is for physics majors. Compare to Caltech. First, there is no "if you take physics". It is a first year requirement. Second, there is just one course. Go to Caltech to major in English (which does occasionally happen! [1]) and your first year you are taking the same required physics and math courses that people there for physics and math are taking. Third, because admissions specifically looked for people with very strong math/science ability, the professors don't have to slow down. Those courses cram a lot into a short time compared to even the courses meant for people majoring in their subject at less specialized schools. The net effect is that for a top high school student Caltech and MIT are much bigger academic shocks than UM because even though at UM you can find comparable courses structural differences due to its size and its much bigger number of students mean it doesn't make you take a bunch of rigorous courses right from the start at an insane pace. [1] It is rare. The reasons some have done it include: • They intend to be science writers or science journalists. • They intend to go to medical school. Medical school admissions committees like English majors and they like a hard science background. • They intend to go to law school. An English major with a serious hard science education and a law degree is a good fit for patent law or for going into science policy work.

keeda 2mo ago

Coincidentally just last week a relative recounted a conversation with someone who used to be a student counselor (or psychiatrist?) at MIT who said MIT should be even softer on students. WTF, right? The dynamic, the counselor explained, is that MIT is already extremely hyper-competitive to get into and so it already selects for students who are very self-driven and competitive. Hence they tend to take on a much harder workload than they can handle, especially because MIT courses are no joke either no matter how smart you are. This causes very high levels of stress amongst a large portion of the student body. The counselor hence wished MIT had even softer policies to make it easier for students to walk away from courses with no repercussions.

frollogaston 2mo ago

Everything I've heard about MIT is that the school itself is softer than others, but the students are very competitive, which makes it actually hard. Then there are Ivies and Stanford which are just soft.