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I have literally no clue, hence I won't try to claim I know exactly what's going on there. For all we know, the ethics team at Raytheon could have stopped multi

I have literally no clue, hence I won't try to claim I know exactly what's going on there. For all we know, the ethics team at Raytheon could have stopped multiple international nuclear wars already.

twister2920 2mo ago
no need for wild speculation, we know that Raytheon is a US Defense contractor and we know that the US targets civilians (including US citizens) abroad for extrajudicial assassinations, starts destabilizing wars without meaningful strategic objectives, supports genocide etc. These things are all extremely well documented, for those paying attention the existence of Raytheon is inherently unethical
- embedding-shape 2mo ago
  > paying attention the existence of Raytheon is inherently unethical Lets do assume this is true, then again, wouldn't Raytheon be the best place to actually have a ethics department, if anyone?
  - twister2920 2mo ago
    only if you assume that the ethics department at Raytheon has absolute power over which contracts Raytheon takes and what kinds of products it produces. which is plainly absurd.
    - embedding-shape 2mo ago
      Why would you assume that? Say they only have 10% influence, 10% influence in "maybe we don't make this sort of weapon" is better than 0%. Of course, that's not even their job description, but that's besides the point. Y'all a bunch of doomers and gloomers.
  - overfeed 2mo ago
    There is no value in merely having a position with no power, that only exists to make the organization look good. Do you think a vegan is most effective at a slaughterhouse, given that they'd undermine their employers revenue if they were given a modicum of power. Google's AI ethics team was steamrolled by this reality.
  - budman1 2mo ago
    The ethics department at Raytheon is focused on questions like "Is it OK to give a bribe to the president if we call it a donation to the ballroom?" They don't have anything to do about using the products they sell. Neither does Boeing, or Lockheed, or Tesla, or SpaceX.
boredumb 2mo ago
They make sure that they are executing contracts in a way that doesn't break the ethics of the jurisdictions they are operating in, they aren't a bunch of naive people pleading for less war.
- embedding-shape 2mo ago
  > they aren't a bunch of naive people pleading for less war Where is this coming from? Who claimed this?
  - boredumb 2mo ago
    Sorry that was meant for who you replied to, I was pointing out the difference in the application of ethics and a personal vs corporate level and that they aren't there to argue a contradictory moral opinion at the company they are there to make sure that the company can execute contracts in a way that abides by the legal ethics of where the are operating - raytheon and stopping war was just an example it applies to all companies and I think most people, myself included, have an incorrect assumption of what those departments are even there for in the first place.

I have literally no clue, hence I won't try to claim I know exactly what's going on there. For all we know, the ethics team at Raytheon could have stopped multiple international nuclear wars already.

twister2920 2mo ago

no need for wild speculation, we know that Raytheon is a US Defense contractor and we know that the US targets civilians (including US citizens) abroad for extrajudicial assassinations, starts destabilizing wars without meaningful strategic objectives, supports genocide etc. These things are all extremely well documented, for those paying attention the existence of Raytheon is inherently unethical

embedding-shape 2mo ago
> paying attention the existence of Raytheon is inherently unethical Lets do assume this is true, then again, wouldn't Raytheon be the best place to actually have a ethics department, if anyone?
- twister2920 2mo ago
  only if you assume that the ethics department at Raytheon has absolute power over which contracts Raytheon takes and what kinds of products it produces. which is plainly absurd.
  - embedding-shape 2mo ago
    Why would you assume that? Say they only have 10% influence, 10% influence in "maybe we don't make this sort of weapon" is better than 0%. Of course, that's not even their job description, but that's besides the point. Y'all a bunch of doomers and gloomers.
- overfeed 2mo ago
  There is no value in merely having a position with no power, that only exists to make the organization look good. Do you think a vegan is most effective at a slaughterhouse, given that they'd undermine their employers revenue if they were given a modicum of power. Google's AI ethics team was steamrolled by this reality.
- budman1 2mo ago
  The ethics department at Raytheon is focused on questions like "Is it OK to give a bribe to the president if we call it a donation to the ballroom?" They don't have anything to do about using the products they sell. Neither does Boeing, or Lockheed, or Tesla, or SpaceX.

boredumb 2mo ago

They make sure that they are executing contracts in a way that doesn't break the ethics of the jurisdictions they are operating in, they aren't a bunch of naive people pleading for less war.

embedding-shape 2mo ago
> they aren't a bunch of naive people pleading for less war Where is this coming from? Who claimed this?
- boredumb 2mo ago
  Sorry that was meant for who you replied to, I was pointing out the difference in the application of ethics and a personal vs corporate level and that they aren't there to argue a contradictory moral opinion at the company they are there to make sure that the company can execute contracts in a way that abides by the legal ethics of where the are operating - raytheon and stopping war was just an example it applies to all companies and I think most people, myself included, have an incorrect assumption of what those departments are even there for in the first place.