4 ms·

England is a country, and if you're reading this on the BBC they most certainly are using the correct terminology. It is not a sovereign country, but instead i

England is a country, and if you're reading this on the BBC they most certainly are using the correct terminology. It is not a sovereign country, but instead is a part of the constituents comprising the UK state.

zelphirkalt 2mo ago
OK, so now we have the following terms: State, nation, country, sovereign country. For example in Germany one would say there are 16 states, but one wouldn't say that there are 16 countries. Never heard anyone claim that. So state seems to be different from country, at least here. Would people in the UK say that Scotland or Wales are "nations"? Or is at least that term very clearly only for units that could participate under a flag in lets say the olympics? (I assume here, that Scotland and Wales are not separately competing, but are under UK flag.)
- tialaramex 2mo ago
  "And by 'country' we mean a sovereign state that is a member of the UN in its own right" to quote the famous UK Quiz Show "Pointless". Team GB enters the Olympics but as you may have noticed it was England who came Third in the World Cup recently, and likewise England play international rugby, including against Wales and Scotland.
  - M2Ys4U 2mo ago
    >and likewise England play international rugby, including against Wales and Scotland. Except when they play as part of the British & Irish Lions!
  - alexchamberlain 2mo ago
    And, of course, the Ireland rugby team picks players from both the Republic of Ireland & Northern Ireland.
    - tialaramex 2mo ago
      That's a citizenship thing though right? The Republic is of the opinion that everybody on Ireland† is a citizen of the Republic. If my mother had happened to be in Portavogie when she gave birth to me last century, my understanding is that the RoI considers I am automatically a citizen, because I was born on "their" island even if certainly Portavogie is not under their control. † The exact rules are complicated, but they don't depend on where on the island you were born or stuff like that.
      - alexchamberlain 2mo ago
        I don't think so. My understanding was "confirmed" by ChatGPT, though I haven't looked at the sources. > Rugby in Ireland is governed by the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU), which was established in 1879, decades before Ireland was partitioned in 1921. It has always organised rugby on an all-Ireland basis.
        tialaramex 2mo ago
        Oh! I looked into it more and you're quite right that the IRFU decides and their rule happens to be about the island of Ireland and so who may control some or all of the island is irrelevant. Thanks.
- Blazara 2mo ago
  The UK, crown dependencies and overseas territories compete as Great Britain in the Olympics rather than the UK. Northern Irish folks can compete for Ireland or GB. As an English person I would say that Scotland and Wales are nations and countries; constituent countries of the country that is the UK.
  - zelphirkalt 2mo ago
    Until today I didn't consider, that countries can be compound/consist of countries. That countries can be recursive. I always thought, that any lower level would be called differently. TIL.
- dessimus 2mo ago
  "State" has lots of meanings depending on context, as it can also refer to the highest level of governments for example: State actors or "head of state". In the U.S., the head of state refers to the President, not to governors in individual states, typically.
- halper 2mo ago
  The "Länder" in Bundesländer is plural of Land, which is the same land as in "land of the free" and would be translated to "nation", "land", "country" or "state" depending on context. So in modern English they may be states, but there sure is a lot of overlap between "country" and "state".

zelphirkalt 2mo ago

OK, so now we have the following terms: State, nation, country, sovereign country. For example in Germany one would say there are 16 states, but one wouldn't say that there are 16 countries. Never heard anyone claim that. So state seems to be different from country, at least here. Would people in the UK say that Scotland or Wales are "nations"? Or is at least that term very clearly only for units that could participate under a flag in lets say the olympics? (I assume here, that Scotland and Wales are not separately competing, but are under UK flag.)

tialaramex 2mo ago
"And by 'country' we mean a sovereign state that is a member of the UN in its own right" to quote the famous UK Quiz Show "Pointless". Team GB enters the Olympics but as you may have noticed it was England who came Third in the World Cup recently, and likewise England play international rugby, including against Wales and Scotland.
- M2Ys4U 2mo ago
  >and likewise England play international rugby, including against Wales and Scotland. Except when they play as part of the British & Irish Lions!
- alexchamberlain 2mo ago
  And, of course, the Ireland rugby team picks players from both the Republic of Ireland & Northern Ireland.
  - tialaramex 2mo ago
    That's a citizenship thing though right? The Republic is of the opinion that everybody on Ireland† is a citizen of the Republic. If my mother had happened to be in Portavogie when she gave birth to me last century, my understanding is that the RoI considers I am automatically a citizen, because I was born on "their" island even if certainly Portavogie is not under their control. † The exact rules are complicated, but they don't depend on where on the island you were born or stuff like that.
    - alexchamberlain 2mo ago
      I don't think so. My understanding was "confirmed" by ChatGPT, though I haven't looked at the sources. > Rugby in Ireland is governed by the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU), which was established in 1879, decades before Ireland was partitioned in 1921. It has always organised rugby on an all-Ireland basis.
      - tialaramex 2mo ago
        Oh! I looked into it more and you're quite right that the IRFU decides and their rule happens to be about the island of Ireland and so who may control some or all of the island is irrelevant. Thanks.
Blazara 2mo ago
The UK, crown dependencies and overseas territories compete as Great Britain in the Olympics rather than the UK. Northern Irish folks can compete for Ireland or GB. As an English person I would say that Scotland and Wales are nations and countries; constituent countries of the country that is the UK.
- zelphirkalt 2mo ago
  Until today I didn't consider, that countries can be compound/consist of countries. That countries can be recursive. I always thought, that any lower level would be called differently. TIL.
dessimus 2mo ago
"State" has lots of meanings depending on context, as it can also refer to the highest level of governments for example: State actors or "head of state". In the U.S., the head of state refers to the President, not to governors in individual states, typically.
halper 2mo ago
The "Länder" in Bundesländer is plural of Land, which is the same land as in "land of the free" and would be translated to "nation", "land", "country" or "state" depending on context. So in modern English they may be states, but there sure is a lot of overlap between "country" and "state".