3 ms·

> They don't listen, out on the streets and protest. Protests have never once seemed effective my entire life, honestly

embedding-shape 2mo ago
> Protests have never once seemed effective my entire life, honestly Then time to crack open those dusty history books and start reading mate :) Most of the civil rights we have in modern life comes from either protests or protests evolving into riots or protests evolving into riots evolving into civil wars, one way or another. But it always starts with protests. You might still be young and haven't yet experienced it, but you're bound to at one point or another, even if you yourself might not be out on the streets protesting and agreeing with the movement(s) when that happen.
- pessimizer 2mo ago
  You might want to cite something, rather than do this. Everybody seems to pretend to be black Americans, whose freedoms weren't gained simply by protest, but by being beaten and having dogs sicced on them while protesting before cameras, and the shame that white people felt while watching that on television - and the pressure of "whataboutism" coming from the Russians that the USA was being judgemental about freedom while also being an apartheid state. Other people have aped the black civil rights struggle (deemed the "civil rights" struggle), and it has amounted to middle class people walking in the streets, congratulating each other and socializing. I don't know of any accomplishments resulting from that. Street protests were traditionally a show of force; an indication that an overwhelming number of people were on the edge of violence. They often ended in a lynching, or the burning down of a building. Black people did not have that option, so they just offered their bodies to television cameras - this was not traditional, this was new. The only model they had before that was Gandhi, and that was not a traditional Indian thing as many think, but an idea he took from Tolstoy. Time to crack open a history book and find out why Baltimore was called Mobtown. Walking in the street has never done anything.
  - shermantanktop 2mo ago
    Never done anything directly. But large-scale protests can move the Overton window.
- bluefirebrand 2mo ago
  > Most of the civil rights we have in modern life comes from either protests or protests evolving into riots or protests evolving into riots evolving into civil wars, one way or another. But it always starts with protests. Right. What I'm saying is that the protests I've seen haven't been useful. I think it's either time to escalate or stop. > You might still be young I'm almost 40.
  - embedding-shape 2mo ago
    > Right. What I'm saying is that the protests I've seen haven't been useful. I think it's either time to escalate or stop. Right, but just because the protests you've been to in your 40 years haven't worked in the way you wished, doesn't mean you think every single protest through all time also been unsuccessful in changing anything, right? With that comes that protests can be successful, and the trick is to figure out why the protests you've gone to haven't been successful then, as they probably could have been, and then try to change it. It's you, and many other people, but unless you all get together and do something, there will never be enough pressure for things to actually escalate. You cannot "stop then escalate", you put pressure until it escalates by itself. But the pressure thing is something that people need to actively participate in of course.
    - bluefirebrand 2mo ago
      > Right, but just because the protests you've been to in your 40 years haven't worked in the way you wished, doesn't mean you think every single protest through all time also been unsuccessful in changing anything, right? I don't really care about historical protests tbh, that's the past. They may have been effective at the time but that's a different context, with different values and virtues We have to operate in today's environment which is one where protest is just viewed as a part of daily life, an annoyance to be tuned out, like walking past a homeless person on the sidewalk
DANmode 2mo ago
American? I felt and feel the same - but mostly about Americans. These folks get it done, and embarrass us as a society: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Protests_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Protests_in_South_Kor... Especially the most recent strike.
- bluefirebrand 2mo ago
  Canadian. Close enough And yes, some countries still seem to have effective protests. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the power of protest to overcome the power of lobbyists
  - DANmode 2mo ago
    Lobbyists can’t control you if you and 3%-20% of the country are in the road instead of doing the transactions or paperwork the ownership class wants you to be doing. Be like the Koreans.
    - bluefirebrand 2mo ago
      Google AI overview for Korea population breakdown: South Korea is one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries globally, with ethnically Korean people making up roughly 95% to 99% Google AI overview for Canada population breakdown: Canada is not homogeneous; it is one of the most ethnically and culturally diverse countries in the world. Nearly one-quarter of people living in Canada were born outside the country. Diversity is in fact not our strength. It keeps us fighting amongst ourselves while the lobbyists push government to do whatever they want Not a very popular opinion, and probably going to earn me some ire, but oh well
      - DANmode 2mo ago
        I also think this is a major factor.

> Protests have never once seemed effective my entire life, honestly Then time to crack open those dusty history books and start reading mate :) Most of the civil rights we have in modern life comes from either protests or protests evolving into riots or protests evolving into riots evolving into civil wars, one way or another. But it always starts with protests. You might still be young and haven't yet experienced it, but you're bound to at one point or another, even if you yourself might not be out on the streets protesting and agreeing with the movement(s) when that happen.

pessimizer 2mo ago
You might want to cite something, rather than do this. Everybody seems to pretend to be black Americans, whose freedoms weren't gained simply by protest, but by being beaten and having dogs sicced on them while protesting before cameras, and the shame that white people felt while watching that on television - and the pressure of "whataboutism" coming from the Russians that the USA was being judgemental about freedom while also being an apartheid state. Other people have aped the black civil rights struggle (deemed the "civil rights" struggle), and it has amounted to middle class people walking in the streets, congratulating each other and socializing. I don't know of any accomplishments resulting from that. Street protests were traditionally a show of force; an indication that an overwhelming number of people were on the edge of violence. They often ended in a lynching, or the burning down of a building. Black people did not have that option, so they just offered their bodies to television cameras - this was not traditional, this was new. The only model they had before that was Gandhi, and that was not a traditional Indian thing as many think, but an idea he took from Tolstoy. Time to crack open a history book and find out why Baltimore was called Mobtown. Walking in the street has never done anything.
- shermantanktop 2mo ago
  Never done anything directly. But large-scale protests can move the Overton window.
bluefirebrand 2mo ago
> Most of the civil rights we have in modern life comes from either protests or protests evolving into riots or protests evolving into riots evolving into civil wars, one way or another. But it always starts with protests. Right. What I'm saying is that the protests I've seen haven't been useful. I think it's either time to escalate or stop. > You might still be young I'm almost 40.
- embedding-shape 2mo ago
  > Right. What I'm saying is that the protests I've seen haven't been useful. I think it's either time to escalate or stop. Right, but just because the protests you've been to in your 40 years haven't worked in the way you wished, doesn't mean you think every single protest through all time also been unsuccessful in changing anything, right? With that comes that protests can be successful, and the trick is to figure out why the protests you've gone to haven't been successful then, as they probably could have been, and then try to change it. It's you, and many other people, but unless you all get together and do something, there will never be enough pressure for things to actually escalate. You cannot "stop then escalate", you put pressure until it escalates by itself. But the pressure thing is something that people need to actively participate in of course.
  - bluefirebrand 2mo ago
    > Right, but just because the protests you've been to in your 40 years haven't worked in the way you wished, doesn't mean you think every single protest through all time also been unsuccessful in changing anything, right? I don't really care about historical protests tbh, that's the past. They may have been effective at the time but that's a different context, with different values and virtues We have to operate in today's environment which is one where protest is just viewed as a part of daily life, an annoyance to be tuned out, like walking past a homeless person on the sidewalk

DANmode 2mo ago

American? I felt and feel the same - but mostly about Americans. These folks get it done, and embarrass us as a society: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Protests_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Protests_in_South_Kor... Especially the most recent strike.

bluefirebrand 2mo ago
Canadian. Close enough And yes, some countries still seem to have effective protests. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the power of protest to overcome the power of lobbyists
- DANmode 2mo ago
  Lobbyists can’t control you if you and 3%-20% of the country are in the road instead of doing the transactions or paperwork the ownership class wants you to be doing. Be like the Koreans.
  - bluefirebrand 2mo ago
    Google AI overview for Korea population breakdown: South Korea is one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries globally, with ethnically Korean people making up roughly 95% to 99% Google AI overview for Canada population breakdown: Canada is not homogeneous; it is one of the most ethnically and culturally diverse countries in the world. Nearly one-quarter of people living in Canada were born outside the country. Diversity is in fact not our strength. It keeps us fighting amongst ourselves while the lobbyists push government to do whatever they want Not a very popular opinion, and probably going to earn me some ire, but oh well
    - DANmode 2mo ago
      I also think this is a major factor.