10 ms·

Things I wish someone had told me about life after college

203 points by kine 14y ago

benhebert 14y ago
This month marks one year out of college for me. 2012 was the most productive year of my life. The best advice that I could give anyone is, "Don't be afraid to be yourself" While in school a lot of this is defined for you, but the real world will challenge you in ways you haven't seen. Do not roll over for your job, friends, girlfriend, whatever. If you don't know who you are or what you want (none of us really do), try as many different things as you can. Explore, learn, fail, succeed, cry, laugh... just experience things and find yourself.
justhw 14y ago
Not a main issue but this ... put everyone’s phone in a bag. Great conversations ensue. Seeing phones out around a table bothers me terribly.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
j45 14y ago
The one fun one: If you think you're done learning, you're done.
larsberg 14y ago
> Your first job out of college won’t make you or break you I disagree with this statement. Certainly, if you go to Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Apple, the choice doesn't matter and you can do whatever after you've learned how to work on real software. But getting into games and many other fields can be astoundingly difficult even two years out of college, as it's difficult to overcome the "finance," "healthcare," or "consulting" tags once they're on your resume. For better or worse, employers usually only see new college grads as full of potential to do anything; after even a single stint at X, you're branded an X-person.
- andreipop 14y ago
  I'd love to have more employers pipe up and comment here. I'm guessing that, although more challenging, changing gears is not altogether impossible (or even very difficult). Certainly one should develop skills in an area that one is interested in impacting, but this kind of mentality breeds fear and risk aversion because new grads begin to see pursuing interesting opportunities as career risks versus character/skill building.
  - JagMicker 14y ago
    I think most recent college graduates have bigger issues than worrying about their 'self-branding'. It takes time, and, usually some experience, to build an identity. Sometimes you just have to 'wing-it' and see where that takes you. I'd bet that most employers wouldn't expect a kid fresh out of college to know his/her 'true calling'.
  - sraj 14y ago
    As a manager, I tend to look for potential both when I review the resumes and when I talk to candidates. Most of my questions are open-ended and I try to see if they can bring some of their learnings to the field/role they want to shift to and if they have done their research on why they want to move to a particular field or role.
- iyulaev 14y ago
  Brand yourself as a generalist. It helps if you work for a company that does a whole gamut (from hardware to GUI-level software). Also do side projects in a totally different area from your work. I was (am?) a hw engineer but had no trouble selling myself as a software guy by emphasizing the software work I've done and my side projects. If you still remeber algos and datastructures you can blast through the interview once you get your foot in the door.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    Yes, but then you lose the ability to brand yourself as a specialist, and miss out on some of the more lucrative opportunities.
kleinsch 14y ago
100% agree about keeping hobbies going (or developing new ones). If your whole life is going to work and hanging out with the friends you made in college/high school, you're not going to make a lot of new friends. I joined a triathlon team five years after college and have had an amazing time. I'm not an athlete at all, but nobody cares - half the team is just there to meet people and have fun. I really wish I'd gotten into it (or something similar) straight out of college. My social life would have been a lot better.
- kine 14y ago
  "I'm not an athlete at all, but nobody cares - half the team is just there to meet people and have fun." Totally what's important
Shenglong 14y ago
Keep those hobbies going. Keep playing soccer, or pool, or surfing. Keep doing yoga. Keep reading. Keep doing you. You’ll develop some great friends around those interests. One of my most resounding fears is meeting people in different fields. In school, it's easy. I can go to a party, go out to a club with friends, or just sit down at a library table with a stranger and meet someone new. Out of school, it seems those opportunities erode... and the majority of friends are either coworkers or friends from the past :( For those of you who have graduated recently, how have you dealt with this? Not that tech friends aren't great - but diversity is wonderful.
- kine 14y ago
  I think joining a group of people is a great way to make new friends around an interest and that's usually industry agnostic. Usually if I hear someone surfs, I'll invite them to surf pretty quickly and then follow up later about actually doing it. I've made a few really good friends this way. College is interesting because it's forcibly social. Everyone is happy to make new friends but in the professional world, I've found just the opposite to be true. People are pretty set with the friends they have, most people seem to want something from them, many think. That's why I really love making friends around interests because you start as that as your base rather than the commonality of an industry.
- pavel_lishin 14y ago
  I haven't graduated recently, but I moved from Texas to New York City three years ago, and I've met most of my current friends through Reddit meetups and IRC channel. There are general weekly meetups in a bar, and other meetups catering to more specific interests - rock climbing, board games, programming, etc. Reddit itself may get some (well deserved) flack on HN, but it's just a community made up of people, and you can't forget the inverse of Sturgeon's law.
  - stretchwithme 14y ago
    Meetups are a great way to meet people. And if you can't find one that interests you, start one yourself. You have to pay but you get to pick the location, making it most convenient for you. You actually come out ahead. And most people really appreciate that you made the effort.
iammc 14y ago
From personal experience: don't do anything for the money, ever.
- kine 14y ago
  Absolutely :)
  - nakedrobot2 14y ago
    Except, you know, when you are $2 away from being thrown onto the street. Pride only goes so far.
  - lalmalang 14y ago
    or if its a lot of money -- you're probably under-valuing what you're learning (assuming a semi-rational labour market..)
- bradleyy 14y ago
  My dad always said, "Son, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing for money."
  - gvb 14y ago
    I believe the equivalent quote for the OP would be more like "Son, if there is money in it, it must be worth doing." Quite a different thing.
  - eli_gottlieb 14y ago
    That just sounds wrong somehow. Money is social. It's what you use with people you don't know, or people you want to bleed.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- nealabq 14y ago
  Except for short-term consulting gigs.
baby 14y ago
No one prepared me to college and I fucked up big times my first years. Makes me want to write a post about it too.
- kine 14y ago
  Do it!
elstevo 14y ago
I've found that it's easy to let your life become unfocused after leaving college. Up until graduation, you always had built-in goals on which to focus: pass that test, find scholarships/jobs, graduate, etc... After graduating and finding a job, I was suddenly without any pressing objectives in my life. What's next? Retirement? That's way too far off (probably). I was working and living my life day-to-day, not unhappy, but sort of drifting without direction. As cliché as it sounds, trying to answer the question "where do I want to be in 1, 5, 10 years" honestly helped. I thought about it for a while and came up with some vague ideas. Every once in a while, I do a mental progress check and that helps me see past the daily routine to something greater.
- guard-of-terra 14y ago
  For the most of my life having those external "goais" and having to meet them was extremelly painful and frustrating for me. You would not believe how happy the lack of "objectives" made me. I can just work, have my salary and not be bothered. It's like as you was under cripppling pain for all of your life and then suddently it is relieved forever.
  - eli_gottlieb 14y ago
    Strange, I found exactly the opposite. I went to industry for a while because I was tired of goal-seeking and working hard all the damn time, but actually being there made me feel pressured as all hell. What I really should have done was exploit my white male upper-middle class American privilege and travel for a while. After how much I burned myself out finishing undergrad the way I did, my parents were actually quite willing to fund it. But no, I felt the need to get a job and try to "build an adult life". I had said, "I want my 9-5". I use the scare-quotes because I discovered that short of being married, with a house, with kids or dogs, there's basically no such thing, and any attempt to treat a real job as a 9-5 for funding your social life will inevitably collapse. Now that I'm "back" in academia on the research-school side (which is, ironically, the stage I was already at by the end of undergrad, mostly), I'm actually a good deal happier. I was also pretty happy with my second industrial job because I got to live where I wanted and work from home, but I actually really like research and feel far more comfortable working hard in pursuit of an achievable goal (publish stuff, write thesis, accumulate credit-points, graduate) rather than just to maintain a hard-working image. Big Life Lesson: you need to find a lifestyle and environment suited to you, and you also need to take responsibility for how you run your own life. I could easily get sucked back into pathological workaholism like many graduate students, even though I felt crushed by having to keep busy for eight straight hours in an industrial job. The right work environment is one that makes me feel want to put in effort, but I also have to cut myself off and go have fun at some point. Hmm... that last paragraph sounds too pat.
lalmalang 14y ago
I dont usually bring it up, but curious - am I the only one who finds a blurb like this a bit unseemly: If you enjoyed this post, I’d be humbled if you’d follow me on Twitter.
- paulgb 14y ago
  I think it's an intentional play on the infamous "you should follow me on twitter" sign-off popularized by Dustin Curtis[1] and propagated by bloggers who don't understand the limitations of split-testing. [1] http://www.dustincurtis.com/you_should_follow_me_on_twitter.html http://www.dustincurtis.com/you_should_follow_me_on_twitter....
- stretchwithme 14y ago
  It struck me as a little strange, as most people say they'd be honored to have your attention, not humbled.
hamzilla 14y ago
The comfort zone one is important. I know a lot of people that stop growing their skills because the money is flowing and it's easy. When you stop growing, it's probably time to move on.
nealabq 14y ago
Remember how those first few weeks of college were intensely social. You meet a lot of people you'll know the rest of your life. It's a critical time. I recommend: Social > academic. But they're intertwined, so work hard, and work with others in your core area. Be helpful and smart and humble. Don't worry about your non-core subjects (let others help you). Don't go nuts with freedom. Go to parties, but drink very little, avoid drugs, don't get caught up in sex. It's fun, but save it for later. Don't go back home. Don't have a girlfriend back home. Don't have a girlfriend at all, this is a time for lots and lots of friends. Avoid toxic people.
- objclxt 14y ago
  > "Don't have a girlfriend at all, this is a time for lots and lots of friends" You seem to be suggesting the two are incompatible, but in my experience that's not really the case at all...
  - aes256 14y ago
    Of course being in a relationship and having other friends are not incompatible, but the time commitment, reordering of priorities, strain on your mental/physical/pecuniary resources will almost inevitably harm your relationships with other friends. Not to mention being in a relationship with someone can lead to profound changes in a person's character, and those changes may not gel with existing friends...
    - stretchwithme 14y ago
      For some it works that way, but others find a partner helps them entertain and communicate. Even sending out the Christmas cards is a lot more likely.
  - usaar333 14y ago
    Wait, GP is talking just about the first few weeks of college right? If so, I can see some truth to this. I can't think of anytime in your life you'll ever again not only have no commitments, but also be surrounded by so many people who haven't yet formed (social) relationships. Makes sense to 100% focus on meeting people and building friendships -- it only gets harder going forward.
prophetjohn 14y ago
I just graduated last night, but this doesn't feel terribly enlightening to me. I don't know if I didn't have the typical college experience or if people like the author just tend to be more vocal about their experience because those in my position had a less rosy view of the whole thing. But it's obvious that I'm in a different group when I read stuff like > There’s no more Spring break or three months off for summer. When I was in college (feels weird to say it in the past tense), summer wasn't 3 months off. If I wasn't taking any classes, I was working full-time so that during the long semesters, I could work only part-time and still be able to pay rent. Spring break meant I could get a little boost to get me through until summer. I just finished yesterday and I'm intensely relieved. I will have so much more free time than I've had the last several years. Maybe I can start a side project or contribute to open source. I'm playing a video game right now. A month ago I would've felt guilty because weekends were the only time I could catch up on homework. My post-graduation plans? Seize all that extra free time! Start working out more. Go to that weekly Reddit poker night. Go to more concerts. Go to programmer meetups.
- stretchwithme 14y ago
  It may take more than a day for all to be revealed.
  - prophetjohn 14y ago
    I sure hope so! I didn't mean to imply that I have it all figured out. But I have to wonder how much a post-college transition article applies to me when written from the perspective of a "traditional" college student. Or at least the type who was a student and only a student when in college since a lot of the transition difficulties are centered around having to work every day and so on.
- scarecrowbob 14y ago
  This resonates loudly with me-- I'm almost 35 and have been out of the university 5 years now. On one hand, my wife paid her way though school and had a very similar experience of working FT (or several part-time) jobs). It's only been since she graduated several years ago that (as a violin teacher) she's been able to schedule time into her life for things like vacations and the like. On the other hand, I spent 10 years in the university, switching from CS to philosophy, getting an MA in English, and leaving a PhD in Literature after a couple of chapters in my dissertation. In that process there is a tremendous pressure to be constantly working on your project, and I simply don't have that now that I have been doing freelance web development. Much as with my wife, the certainty of being able to find however much work I need has really allowed me to throttle back on feeling guilty when I'm not pushing forward on some project or other (or, perhaps, just allowed me to feel less guilt on pushing forward on non-remunerative projects like becoming a better musician or learning a new programming technique/technology without a direct short-term payoff). If I could add anything to the OP, it'd be this: taking a full time job that doesn't mark seasons or develop you into some new person isn't inevitable. IMO, your plan to seize new found free time is much more profitable than giving into the flow of "Wednesday just being Wednesday".
the_cat_kittles 14y ago
Some positives I didn't realize about life after college: - You have complete control over you choices. You did in college, but by choosing to go, you are forfeiting some of that I think, at least psychologically. - There may be things about school in general that you hated, or thought were stupid, but never realized until you got some distance from them. I had this experience, I was filled with a warm glow for about a year when I realized this! - You are in the "real" world. I hate this distinction, because it is not true, but it is still nice to know that the hopefully small part of your mind that subscribes to that distinction can now forget about it. - You can use all your strengths to do what you want. Instead of trying to play the academic game, which limits the degree to which you can be resourceful, now you can use anything and everything to make things happen. - You will learn a lot more about who you are, and your natural tendencies, since you have so much more freedom. - I was, and still am surprised at how incredibly incomprehensibly vast and mysterious the world is. This was much more hidden to me in school. This may not be true for everyone, or even for most, but I'm sure there are lots of people on HN who felt these things. To those of you on your way to graduation, I hope you aren't fearful. For me, it was probably the happiest transition of my life. That's not to say there weren't some of the most extreme difficulties, but overall, its been wonderful.
- xk_id 14y ago
  fuck, i need to graduate :)
- Goladus 14y ago
  When people say academia is not the real world they generally mean a few things. "Real world" might not be dictionary-correct but this is what is meant: 1. Many of the problems you're forced to solve are contrived. They're practice problems and often the knowledge required to implement the solution has been provided to you already in classroom or textbooks. 2. You are evaluated on the academic quality of your work. In the "real world" you're evaluated on whether your work meets the needs of the customer and how well you present yourself. 3. In college you are rewarded based on how you are evaluated. In the real world you are not paid based on how well you are evaluated you are paid what you're able to sell or negotiate which is dependent on what your skills are worth (not just how well you perform them). 4. Basic needs (food/shelter) are paid for by someone else or on credit. This is not always true but often is. In the real world there is pressure to provide for oneself.
guitarhacks 14y ago
Nice tips but I already knew that in elementary school. The most important thing is not the transition after the college or university but your work and making connections WHILE you are studying. - You must build your network while you are studying and find people who you like to work with (look at Facebook?). Of course that depends on what University you are studying. Better University, better networks. - Besides chasing girls and partying don't just learn to get good grades. Find something you like to do and work on it, your field of interest etc. - Join all kinds of university projects WHILE you are studying that you think can help in your future job, career. Ask your teacher and tell him: I WANT MORE :) Especially if he is well known and you think he is awesome. Work more then everybody else and show him your own projects. He will introduce you to other interesting people. Latter in your life he can recommend you to someone or help you in finding a good job (maybe, you never know). - Go to other lectures and find interesting people and ideas - Don't enjoy your student life too much If you work on all this your transition will be a lot better after you get out. I studied with one of the best teachers and performers in my field and he used to say to his students: "Look at that guy over there (me), you have to be crazy like him"
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  You're picking up lots of downvotes, including from me. I'm going to explain why. * Your first point is trite. Everyone says, "find your passion". Guess what? Most real people don't live lives structured around the pursuit of some driving passion -- just like how most people don't become start-up millionaires. You or I in specific may or may not be special, unique snowflakes, but any Life Advice premised on the recipient being a special, unique snowflake is very bad advice. * Your second point combines workaholism with straight-up brown-nosing. Nobody likes a brown-noser, and contrary to your apparent thinking, bosses and professors can in fact spot them. Especially professors, actually! My stepfather is an old-hat Electrical Engineering professor, and he has told our family the occasional story about undergrads who were obviously just looking for a nice letter of recommendation or graduate students who could not complete PhDs because they were better at sucking up and obeying orders than original thinking. * Your third point is trite. * Your fourth point is... ugh. I don't even have commonly-understood words for this concept. It's like trying to find a word for water in Fish Language. Puritanical? Anti-Spiral? There's something really fucked-up about telling other people to avoid enjoying a valid, valuable part of their life. Overall, your post comes across as if you're someone who kicks puppies, sucks up to everyone above him, and only cares about career advancement. If people in your field say "you have to be crazy" to mean "you have to be a joyless, semi-sociopathic workaholic", tell me what line of work you're in so I can avoid it for the rest of time.
radarsat1 14y ago
I am currently dealing with this. I'm not sure about his specific tips, but the general feeling that this transition is not easy is something I don't feel I was adequately prepared for. I just finished my PhD and started working at a company, and I thought I would really enjoy the job since it's in a fun and exciting field, but honestly the experience has been pretty jarring. I've spent the last 7 years basically in charge of my own research projects, and all of a sudden being tasked to fix someone else's software that I'd never seen before and that was already at quite an advanced stage was just a bit difficult and a shock to my system. Not that I couldn't handle the work technically (I managed to commit a few pretty important bug fixes in my first week), but socially and mentally it was very difficult for me; suddenly not being around any of the people I have become good friends with, and being tied down to such a strict work schedule. 9-to-5 instead of waking up when I feel like it and taking a long coffee break with my friends in the afternoon. I am sort of starting to get used to it, but it sure hasn't been easy.
- jtheory 14y ago
  I remember this as well -- there's a particular feeling in my gut that I recall, sitting down in front of the computer at 9am, feeling sick and drained already, to work on a task that would be both tedious and difficult and didn't interest me in the slightest.... I could force myself to go ahead and get something done, but it would feel like I was somehow doing permanent damage to my psyche. You have to look for the opportunities (and sometimes make them, once you have the clout to do it), but it's quite possible to get back to the kind of schedule (and better focused/motivated work & life) that you mentioned. In the meantime, get talking with the people around you -- some of them can become friends, and they have some say in what you work on -- while someone probably needs to get this software fixed now, your next task may well be still undecided. If you seem happy with this kind of assignment (and do it well), you're probably going to get more like it.
  - radarsat1 14y ago
    Thanks for the support. Yeah, I'm already seriously evaluating my options. I have realized that it's okay if the first job I get may not end up being what I'm looking for.
sown 14y ago
One thing I noticed is that it is very, very lonely. I'm still trying to figure out ways to meet people and make friends, good friends even. No dice. Maybe I'm just not very fun to be around.
- quit 14y ago
  Or maybe you should stop trying so hard to meet people and make friends and just be
  - sown 14y ago
    What do you mean? If I don't try then I just stay at home.
    - quit 14y ago
      I mean that, especially for introverts, trying hard to make friends usually is counterproductive. If instead you start finding things you actually enjoy and start enjoying them (forgetting there's people around) it's easier to engage in productive interactions
      - sown 14y ago
        > If instead you start finding things you actually enjoy and start enjoying them (forgetting there's people around) it's easier to engage in productive interactions I've tried that but I didn't see the same phenomena. But thanks for the suggestion. I also find that I don't really enjoy anything nowadays.
- nelsonweiss 14y ago
  Sown, Normally I wouldn't go off topic like this but I didn't see any way to contact you and I just wanted to tell you that: a. Don't give up on finding friends. It may seem rough right now but these things have a way of changing over time so just persist and you'll succeed. b. Lighten up. Smile a little. Instead of thinking crap like "I'm just not fun to be around", take a look about and realize "damn, what an amazing world. I have a rough time getting out and meeting people but when I stay in there are millions of people right here with me, just a few feet and two screens away." Things'll work out. Don't worry.. :)
WalterBright 14y ago
Probably what I miss most about college is living off the same hall as most of your friends, who you're around 24 hours a day. There was always something fun going on.
sayemm 14y ago
Recent college grads should read Charlie Hoehn's ebook, Recession-Proof Graduate - http://charliehoehn.com/rpgrad/ http://charliehoehn.com/rpgrad/
JagMicker 14y ago
Here are some things I wish someone would've shared with me... - If you want to thrive in the professional world, get a fucking haircut and at least look the part. - If you think that you can send out a bunch of resumes and be flooded with calls about job offers, you are wrong. - Most of the phrases you've heard in your youth are true. Ex. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". See the above point. If you get a job (or a check) just by sending a resume (or invoice), consider it an anomaly, and yourself lucky. - In life, everyone is only concerned about their own well-being. You've got to learn to highlight 'what's in it for them'. See the above point. - You're on your own, so make your time and actions count!
- brotchie 14y ago
  > If you get a check just by sending a invoice, consider it an anomaly, and yourself lucky. So very, very true. "Oh you want to get paid for this consulting project huh? Well we can't just wire the money to you, no, please fill out this form so we can put you in our SAP system. Oh, you haven't been paid? well well, you're not in our system. We've finally put you our system, here's a record of our payment to you. no money in my bank account argh!" Direct experience with my country's 3rd largest bank. Once outside regular salaried work, liquidity is more of an issue than solvency. You might have billed 5 months of rent, but your real estate agent doesn't accept unpaid invoices as legal tender....
- rb2k_ 14y ago
  For software engineering, the "job offers" part still holds up.
- csmajor1234 14y ago
  I disagree about your second point. I'm a CS Major at a top 10 program, with a pretty good GPA (~3.7). This is a throwaway account btw. During this fall recruiting season, I sent out my resumes to all the top companies, and was offered interviews at every single one. With the exception of two companies, I received offers from everywhere I interviewed, including Amazon, Google, Facebook and Microsoft. I think the market is so hot right now that you CAN get showered with job offers just by sending out a lot of resumes.
JDuMond 14y ago
I graduated Dec. '11. There are three things that I wish I had been told about working after college: 1. Find a mentor. If you have any flexibility in the projects you work on or the people you get to work with choose to work with someone who will be a mentor to you. I think we're all familiar with the benefits of a mentor as a teacher, but there's another important function of a mentor: they can be a "cheerleader". A good mentor will talk you up around his co-workers and management, and make sure that those who don't work directly with know that you are capable of putting out quality work and that you should be considered for more interesting/challenging work in the future. 3. Ask questions. When you start your new job you'll feel like you need to prove yourself as just as capable as everyone who's been working on the same project/codebase/technology for years. So you'll stay late banging your head against the desk trying to solve a problem that has nagged you for days. You finally breakdown and ask an experienced engineer what he thinks, he says, "Oh yeah, I've seen this a hundred times. It tricky the first time you come across it..." and then explains how to fix it in a few minutes. If you had gone to him earlier you could have increased your productivity and saved your self a headache. The more experienced engineers are a resource. If you aren't using all the resources available to you to get work done efficiently, you're not doing your job. 2. If you're unhappy with your work, speak up. Your management cannot read minds. If you find your work soul crushing but you do well on it your management will keep you there until you burnout. At that point you'll rip off your clothes and streak through the halls and your management will think, "I never saw that coming." Your company(probably) wants you to be happy because if you are you'll be more productive and that adds to there bottom line. Let your management know that you would like to do other work and they'll try to move you somewhere you can be happy. It may take time but I've found that just knowing that you management cares goes a long way to easing the pain. If your management does care, start working on your resume and browse wanted ads during lunch.
- gregpilling 14y ago
  To agree with the JDuMond: 1. If someone gives you good advice, surprise them by taking it. 2. Ask questions. Just not the same ones over and over again, and not ones easily answered by Google. 3. As a manager, remember that I can't tell if you are having a bad day because you are mad at your spouse or mad at me or ???. So just tell me your issue, I would like to help.
JDSD 14y ago
The vast majority of kids who enter college do so right after high school. They are used to summers off, parents sending tuition checks and allowances for rent/living. There is a misunderstanding in todays youth that college is a social club with the side effect of gaining an education. Few kids choose their school on quality of education, but rather how big the parties are/what the scene is like. To me this entire subject reeks of #firstworldproblems, and the fact I don't have much respect for the beaten path or the zombies they churn out(referring to a BA). Life after college isn't hard at all. This generation is simply not used to feeling ANY discomfort or pain in their sheltered little lives. Not going to college and excelling to the point of someone with a degree is not that difficult, though it's more difficult than going to a structured setting to be hand-fed information. (most of college could be condensed into one year study, one year practical) Working in an electronic graveyard in Ghana at age 13 with no parents seems difficult. It seems in places like this, limits of the human experience are tested everyday in terms of what people can and cannot withstand. Spend some time learning how other people live purely for our convenience, and repeat "Graduating college is a difficult transition from one easy thing to the next easy thing." You'll sound ridiculous.
- peter_l_downs 14y ago
  There is a misunderstanding in todays youth that college is a social club with the side effect of gaining an education. Few kids choose their school on quality of education, but rather how big the parties are/what the scene is like. Source? This seems extremely anecdotal. Life after college isn't hard at all. This generation is simply not used to feeling ANY discomfort or pain in their sheltered little lives. This is hyperbole and personal opinion presented as fact. HN is not the place for this kind of writing.
  - jarek 14y ago
    > Source? This seems extremely anecdotal. Source is the darn kids on his lawn.
  - 001sky 14y ago
    Asking for "source" on how the world works? LOL Actually, having street smarts would be anecdoatal; <because> Actually having street smarts would be anecdotal. But this is OK. It's the point of the thread...
mhewett 14y ago
As a 55 year old I would say that this is exactly right, especially the part about keeping yourself healthy, both physically and mentally. I have, and it has paid off. I would add one item to the list: Set a 5-year goal and update it every year.
brackin 14y ago
I haven't gone to College, I've gone out from High School and started building a startup. Doesn't apply so much to me because when I wasn't working in school I was up all night getting a few hours of sleep after working on projects.
JacksonGariety 14y ago
Seems like these are instructions for how to live life by default. Instructions on how to fit into the cogs of the system and not fall into depression. In my opinion, life should not be like this. For those who haven't already, you should read this article from HN a few weeks ago: http://www.raptitude.com/2012/07/most-lives-are-lived-by-default/ http://www.raptitude.com/2012/07/most-lives-are-lived-by-def...
- dinkumthinkum 14y ago
  Yes, it is basically entirely about being not only a cog but a good little cog. Honestly, to anyone reading this stuff and looking for direction or advice on life, don't take from HN. If you listen to anyone on HN at all about life issues, just listen to the ones that tell you not to listen. This crowd is too biased toward one direction that it's going to bias in advice toward that ideal lifestyle. If you really want to be a healthy, skinny, hipster whose goal in life is to increase the share value of the company he works for and make his managers happy then a lot of stuff would probably be very useful; it sounds like a dreadful bore to me. :)
braveheart1723 14y ago
- Don't sell out. Find out what you love whether it's design, programming, assembly, hacking stuff, building stuff, whatever... and do that. If you sell out, at the beginning you might make loads of $$$, it'll be amazing, maybe you'll make more than your dad ever made, maybe you'll buy yourself a 70" TV but trust me... 3 to 5 years in. You'll be that annoying guy that tells all his friends he sold out and really wished to have been an actor, a sportsman, an artist, a musician, an animator. - Save enough $$$ for 6months of living without work, all of a sudden you'll be a lot pickier on what you work on. - watch http://www.beautyisembarrassing.com/ http://www.beautyisembarrassing.com/
michaelochurch 14y ago
What got me in the adult world was "4.0 syndrome". (Well, my actual GPA wasn't 4.0, but close.) Not that I was used to getting great grades and had a rude awakening, because school was a lot more intellectually challenging than 95+ percent of what I encountered in the real world, but that school led me to believe the world was more meritocratic, fair, and straight-forward than it actually is. For example, some teachers were better than others-- I actually lucked out and had mostly good ones-- but I never had a teacher who went out of his way to be unfair. But I've had more than one manager who was outright scummy. School doesn't prepare you for this, because while there are demanding teachers, unfair or corrupt ones (while they exist) are extraordinarily rare. Also, in college, you have career coherence. The work that is put in front of you is designed to teach you the basic concepts, so you'll usually learn something from it. The rare cases where this isn't the case are when you have outright incompetent professors. Either way, though, if you do the work you will usually get the knowledge and credibility that you need for your career. Useless, unappreciated busy-work is quite rare in college, but it's common in the work world. To get anything close to 100% career coherence at work, you have to actively manage your career. If you just do what your manager tells you to do, you're probably looking at 25%, which means you get 1 year of real progress per 4 of work. In the real world, the deadlines aren't well-tested. They might be unrealistic or make no sense. The work isn't designed to teach you things, and if you graduate past the work you're being assigned and are ready to move on, that comes down more to social skills than anything else. In school, you can skip grades. In work, you actually need social engineering (or frequent job changes) to progress faster than the slow players for whom the typical track is designed. "4.0 Syndrome" is seen heavily in startups and investment banking analyst programs, because there's a crop of 22-year-olds every year who will meet every "deadline" no matter how ridiculous. They haven't learned that many real-world "deadlines" are just made up times that are often impossible to meet. (In school, they're also "made up times", but there are a large number of people facing the same deadlines, and they'll generally moved if they're really unreasonable.) It's also a dangerous trait to have, because it can lead you to over-perform at work, which in most office cultures is more dangerous than underperforming because (a) you become a target for adversity, and (b) you lose social polish if you overwork yourself, and social success is more important than raw "performance".
- 14y ago
frozenport 14y ago
>>Play with your schedule. Wake up earlier, go to bed later. Time-shifting is your friend. This is bad advice, in college you can skip classes and choose where to fail, you can't skip meetings and your mistakes live can't be dismissed. Having an inconsistent sleep schedule is a great way to mess up your life.
jtheory 14y ago
Advice I'd add: pay careful attention to the responsibilities you take on. Owning a car -- you have to maintain it, possibly repair it occasionally, insure it, etc.. A pet is quite a large one -- want to travel for a few months? And you'll probably have that dog for the next 10-15 years, and they may get sick along the way. Owning a house, of course, but also renting -- you have to deal with minor damage, rent, keeping the landlord informed ("I didn't notice water started leaking in during the winter" is very bad). Debt, of course -- what if you can't quit an exhausting job you detest, because you're paying down large debts? Many of these things are rewarding (I love having a dog, for example, though it does make some things hard...) -- I'm not saying don't do them, just realize what you're trading. Take on new responsibilities one at a time, and do it with your eyes open. I personally wish I'd been slower to take on new responsibilities when I was first out of college -- my first salary seemed huge, and so I traded up my $900 car for a $12K one, married my long-time girlfriend in a way-too-expensive wedding, and got a puppy... not mistakes, per se, but it was all much too fast.

203 points by kine 14y ago

This month marks one year out of college for me. 2012 was the most productive year of my life. The best advice that I could give anyone is, "Don't be afraid to be yourself" While in school a lot of this is defined for you, but the real world will challenge you in ways you haven't seen. Do not roll over for your job, friends, girlfriend, whatever. If you don't know who you are or what you want (none of us really do), try as many different things as you can. Explore, learn, fail, succeed, cry, laugh... just experience things and find yourself.

justhw 14y ago

Not a main issue but this ... put everyone’s phone in a bag. Great conversations ensue. Seeing phones out around a table bothers me terribly.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

j45 14y ago

The one fun one: If you think you're done learning, you're done.

larsberg 14y ago

> Your first job out of college won’t make you or break you I disagree with this statement. Certainly, if you go to Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Apple, the choice doesn't matter and you can do whatever after you've learned how to work on real software. But getting into games and many other fields can be astoundingly difficult even two years out of college, as it's difficult to overcome the "finance," "healthcare," or "consulting" tags once they're on your resume. For better or worse, employers usually only see new college grads as full of potential to do anything; after even a single stint at X, you're branded an X-person.

andreipop 14y ago
I'd love to have more employers pipe up and comment here. I'm guessing that, although more challenging, changing gears is not altogether impossible (or even very difficult). Certainly one should develop skills in an area that one is interested in impacting, but this kind of mentality breeds fear and risk aversion because new grads begin to see pursuing interesting opportunities as career risks versus character/skill building.
- JagMicker 14y ago
  I think most recent college graduates have bigger issues than worrying about their 'self-branding'. It takes time, and, usually some experience, to build an identity. Sometimes you just have to 'wing-it' and see where that takes you. I'd bet that most employers wouldn't expect a kid fresh out of college to know his/her 'true calling'.
- sraj 14y ago
  As a manager, I tend to look for potential both when I review the resumes and when I talk to candidates. Most of my questions are open-ended and I try to see if they can bring some of their learnings to the field/role they want to shift to and if they have done their research on why they want to move to a particular field or role.
iyulaev 14y ago
Brand yourself as a generalist. It helps if you work for a company that does a whole gamut (from hardware to GUI-level software). Also do side projects in a totally different area from your work. I was (am?) a hw engineer but had no trouble selling myself as a software guy by emphasizing the software work I've done and my side projects. If you still remeber algos and datastructures you can blast through the interview once you get your foot in the door.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  Yes, but then you lose the ability to brand yourself as a specialist, and miss out on some of the more lucrative opportunities.

kleinsch 14y ago

100% agree about keeping hobbies going (or developing new ones). If your whole life is going to work and hanging out with the friends you made in college/high school, you're not going to make a lot of new friends. I joined a triathlon team five years after college and have had an amazing time. I'm not an athlete at all, but nobody cares - half the team is just there to meet people and have fun. I really wish I'd gotten into it (or something similar) straight out of college. My social life would have been a lot better.

kine 14y ago
"I'm not an athlete at all, but nobody cares - half the team is just there to meet people and have fun." Totally what's important

Shenglong 14y ago

Keep those hobbies going. Keep playing soccer, or pool, or surfing. Keep doing yoga. Keep reading. Keep doing you. You’ll develop some great friends around those interests. One of my most resounding fears is meeting people in different fields. In school, it's easy. I can go to a party, go out to a club with friends, or just sit down at a library table with a stranger and meet someone new. Out of school, it seems those opportunities erode... and the majority of friends are either coworkers or friends from the past :( For those of you who have graduated recently, how have you dealt with this? Not that tech friends aren't great - but diversity is wonderful.

kine 14y ago
I think joining a group of people is a great way to make new friends around an interest and that's usually industry agnostic. Usually if I hear someone surfs, I'll invite them to surf pretty quickly and then follow up later about actually doing it. I've made a few really good friends this way. College is interesting because it's forcibly social. Everyone is happy to make new friends but in the professional world, I've found just the opposite to be true. People are pretty set with the friends they have, most people seem to want something from them, many think. That's why I really love making friends around interests because you start as that as your base rather than the commonality of an industry.
pavel_lishin 14y ago
I haven't graduated recently, but I moved from Texas to New York City three years ago, and I've met most of my current friends through Reddit meetups and IRC channel. There are general weekly meetups in a bar, and other meetups catering to more specific interests - rock climbing, board games, programming, etc. Reddit itself may get some (well deserved) flack on HN, but it's just a community made up of people, and you can't forget the inverse of Sturgeon's law.
- stretchwithme 14y ago
  Meetups are a great way to meet people. And if you can't find one that interests you, start one yourself. You have to pay but you get to pick the location, making it most convenient for you. You actually come out ahead. And most people really appreciate that you made the effort.

iammc 14y ago

From personal experience: don't do anything for the money, ever.

kine 14y ago
Absolutely :)
- nakedrobot2 14y ago
  Except, you know, when you are $2 away from being thrown onto the street. Pride only goes so far.
- lalmalang 14y ago
  or if its a lot of money -- you're probably under-valuing what you're learning (assuming a semi-rational labour market..)
bradleyy 14y ago
My dad always said, "Son, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing for money."
- gvb 14y ago
  I believe the equivalent quote for the OP would be more like "Son, if there is money in it, it must be worth doing." Quite a different thing.
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  That just sounds wrong somehow. Money is social. It's what you use with people you don't know, or people you want to bleed.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
nealabq 14y ago
Except for short-term consulting gigs.

baby 14y ago

No one prepared me to college and I fucked up big times my first years. Makes me want to write a post about it too.

kine 14y ago
Do it!

elstevo 14y ago

I've found that it's easy to let your life become unfocused after leaving college. Up until graduation, you always had built-in goals on which to focus: pass that test, find scholarships/jobs, graduate, etc... After graduating and finding a job, I was suddenly without any pressing objectives in my life. What's next? Retirement? That's way too far off (probably). I was working and living my life day-to-day, not unhappy, but sort of drifting without direction. As cliché as it sounds, trying to answer the question "where do I want to be in 1, 5, 10 years" honestly helped. I thought about it for a while and came up with some vague ideas. Every once in a while, I do a mental progress check and that helps me see past the daily routine to something greater.

guard-of-terra 14y ago
For the most of my life having those external "goais" and having to meet them was extremelly painful and frustrating for me. You would not believe how happy the lack of "objectives" made me. I can just work, have my salary and not be bothered. It's like as you was under cripppling pain for all of your life and then suddently it is relieved forever.
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  Strange, I found exactly the opposite. I went to industry for a while because I was tired of goal-seeking and working hard all the damn time, but actually being there made me feel pressured as all hell. What I really should have done was exploit my white male upper-middle class American privilege and travel for a while. After how much I burned myself out finishing undergrad the way I did, my parents were actually quite willing to fund it. But no, I felt the need to get a job and try to "build an adult life". I had said, "I want my 9-5". I use the scare-quotes because I discovered that short of being married, with a house, with kids or dogs, there's basically no such thing, and any attempt to treat a real job as a 9-5 for funding your social life will inevitably collapse. Now that I'm "back" in academia on the research-school side (which is, ironically, the stage I was already at by the end of undergrad, mostly), I'm actually a good deal happier. I was also pretty happy with my second industrial job because I got to live where I wanted and work from home, but I actually really like research and feel far more comfortable working hard in pursuit of an achievable goal (publish stuff, write thesis, accumulate credit-points, graduate) rather than just to maintain a hard-working image. Big Life Lesson: you need to find a lifestyle and environment suited to you, and you also need to take responsibility for how you run your own life. I could easily get sucked back into pathological workaholism like many graduate students, even though I felt crushed by having to keep busy for eight straight hours in an industrial job. The right work environment is one that makes me feel want to put in effort, but I also have to cut myself off and go have fun at some point. Hmm... that last paragraph sounds too pat.

lalmalang 14y ago

I dont usually bring it up, but curious - am I the only one who finds a blurb like this a bit unseemly: If you enjoyed this post, I’d be humbled if you’d follow me on Twitter.

paulgb 14y ago
I think it's an intentional play on the infamous "you should follow me on twitter" sign-off popularized by Dustin Curtis[1] and propagated by bloggers who don't understand the limitations of split-testing. [1] http://www.dustincurtis.com/you_should_follow_me_on_twitter.html http://www.dustincurtis.com/you_should_follow_me_on_twitter....
stretchwithme 14y ago
It struck me as a little strange, as most people say they'd be honored to have your attention, not humbled.

hamzilla 14y ago

The comfort zone one is important. I know a lot of people that stop growing their skills because the money is flowing and it's easy. When you stop growing, it's probably time to move on.

nealabq 14y ago

Remember how those first few weeks of college were intensely social. You meet a lot of people you'll know the rest of your life. It's a critical time. I recommend: Social > academic. But they're intertwined, so work hard, and work with others in your core area. Be helpful and smart and humble. Don't worry about your non-core subjects (let others help you). Don't go nuts with freedom. Go to parties, but drink very little, avoid drugs, don't get caught up in sex. It's fun, but save it for later. Don't go back home. Don't have a girlfriend back home. Don't have a girlfriend at all, this is a time for lots and lots of friends. Avoid toxic people.

objclxt 14y ago
> "Don't have a girlfriend at all, this is a time for lots and lots of friends" You seem to be suggesting the two are incompatible, but in my experience that's not really the case at all...
- aes256 14y ago
  Of course being in a relationship and having other friends are not incompatible, but the time commitment, reordering of priorities, strain on your mental/physical/pecuniary resources will almost inevitably harm your relationships with other friends. Not to mention being in a relationship with someone can lead to profound changes in a person's character, and those changes may not gel with existing friends...
  - stretchwithme 14y ago
    For some it works that way, but others find a partner helps them entertain and communicate. Even sending out the Christmas cards is a lot more likely.
- usaar333 14y ago
  Wait, GP is talking just about the first few weeks of college right? If so, I can see some truth to this. I can't think of anytime in your life you'll ever again not only have no commitments, but also be surrounded by so many people who haven't yet formed (social) relationships. Makes sense to 100% focus on meeting people and building friendships -- it only gets harder going forward.

prophetjohn 14y ago

I just graduated last night, but this doesn't feel terribly enlightening to me. I don't know if I didn't have the typical college experience or if people like the author just tend to be more vocal about their experience because those in my position had a less rosy view of the whole thing. But it's obvious that I'm in a different group when I read stuff like > There’s no more Spring break or three months off for summer. When I was in college (feels weird to say it in the past tense), summer wasn't 3 months off. If I wasn't taking any classes, I was working full-time so that during the long semesters, I could work only part-time and still be able to pay rent. Spring break meant I could get a little boost to get me through until summer. I just finished yesterday and I'm intensely relieved. I will have so much more free time than I've had the last several years. Maybe I can start a side project or contribute to open source. I'm playing a video game right now. A month ago I would've felt guilty because weekends were the only time I could catch up on homework. My post-graduation plans? Seize all that extra free time! Start working out more. Go to that weekly Reddit poker night. Go to more concerts. Go to programmer meetups.

stretchwithme 14y ago
It may take more than a day for all to be revealed.
- prophetjohn 14y ago
  I sure hope so! I didn't mean to imply that I have it all figured out. But I have to wonder how much a post-college transition article applies to me when written from the perspective of a "traditional" college student. Or at least the type who was a student and only a student when in college since a lot of the transition difficulties are centered around having to work every day and so on.
scarecrowbob 14y ago
This resonates loudly with me-- I'm almost 35 and have been out of the university 5 years now. On one hand, my wife paid her way though school and had a very similar experience of working FT (or several part-time) jobs). It's only been since she graduated several years ago that (as a violin teacher) she's been able to schedule time into her life for things like vacations and the like. On the other hand, I spent 10 years in the university, switching from CS to philosophy, getting an MA in English, and leaving a PhD in Literature after a couple of chapters in my dissertation. In that process there is a tremendous pressure to be constantly working on your project, and I simply don't have that now that I have been doing freelance web development. Much as with my wife, the certainty of being able to find however much work I need has really allowed me to throttle back on feeling guilty when I'm not pushing forward on some project or other (or, perhaps, just allowed me to feel less guilt on pushing forward on non-remunerative projects like becoming a better musician or learning a new programming technique/technology without a direct short-term payoff). If I could add anything to the OP, it'd be this: taking a full time job that doesn't mark seasons or develop you into some new person isn't inevitable. IMO, your plan to seize new found free time is much more profitable than giving into the flow of "Wednesday just being Wednesday".

the_cat_kittles 14y ago

Some positives I didn't realize about life after college: - You have complete control over you choices. You did in college, but by choosing to go, you are forfeiting some of that I think, at least psychologically. - There may be things about school in general that you hated, or thought were stupid, but never realized until you got some distance from them. I had this experience, I was filled with a warm glow for about a year when I realized this! - You are in the "real" world. I hate this distinction, because it is not true, but it is still nice to know that the hopefully small part of your mind that subscribes to that distinction can now forget about it. - You can use all your strengths to do what you want. Instead of trying to play the academic game, which limits the degree to which you can be resourceful, now you can use anything and everything to make things happen. - You will learn a lot more about who you are, and your natural tendencies, since you have so much more freedom. - I was, and still am surprised at how incredibly incomprehensibly vast and mysterious the world is. This was much more hidden to me in school. This may not be true for everyone, or even for most, but I'm sure there are lots of people on HN who felt these things. To those of you on your way to graduation, I hope you aren't fearful. For me, it was probably the happiest transition of my life. That's not to say there weren't some of the most extreme difficulties, but overall, its been wonderful.

xk_id 14y ago
fuck, i need to graduate :)
Goladus 14y ago
When people say academia is not the real world they generally mean a few things. "Real world" might not be dictionary-correct but this is what is meant: 1. Many of the problems you're forced to solve are contrived. They're practice problems and often the knowledge required to implement the solution has been provided to you already in classroom or textbooks. 2. You are evaluated on the academic quality of your work. In the "real world" you're evaluated on whether your work meets the needs of the customer and how well you present yourself. 3. In college you are rewarded based on how you are evaluated. In the real world you are not paid based on how well you are evaluated you are paid what you're able to sell or negotiate which is dependent on what your skills are worth (not just how well you perform them). 4. Basic needs (food/shelter) are paid for by someone else or on credit. This is not always true but often is. In the real world there is pressure to provide for oneself.

guitarhacks 14y ago

Nice tips but I already knew that in elementary school. The most important thing is not the transition after the college or university but your work and making connections WHILE you are studying. - You must build your network while you are studying and find people who you like to work with (look at Facebook?). Of course that depends on what University you are studying. Better University, better networks. - Besides chasing girls and partying don't just learn to get good grades. Find something you like to do and work on it, your field of interest etc. - Join all kinds of university projects WHILE you are studying that you think can help in your future job, career. Ask your teacher and tell him: I WANT MORE :) Especially if he is well known and you think he is awesome. Work more then everybody else and show him your own projects. He will introduce you to other interesting people. Latter in your life he can recommend you to someone or help you in finding a good job (maybe, you never know). - Go to other lectures and find interesting people and ideas - Don't enjoy your student life too much If you work on all this your transition will be a lot better after you get out. I studied with one of the best teachers and performers in my field and he used to say to his students: "Look at that guy over there (me), you have to be crazy like him"

eli_gottlieb 14y ago
You're picking up lots of downvotes, including from me. I'm going to explain why. * Your first point is trite. Everyone says, "find your passion". Guess what? Most real people don't live lives structured around the pursuit of some driving passion -- just like how most people don't become start-up millionaires. You or I in specific may or may not be special, unique snowflakes, but any Life Advice premised on the recipient being a special, unique snowflake is very bad advice. * Your second point combines workaholism with straight-up brown-nosing. Nobody likes a brown-noser, and contrary to your apparent thinking, bosses and professors can in fact spot them. Especially professors, actually! My stepfather is an old-hat Electrical Engineering professor, and he has told our family the occasional story about undergrads who were obviously just looking for a nice letter of recommendation or graduate students who could not complete PhDs because they were better at sucking up and obeying orders than original thinking. * Your third point is trite. * Your fourth point is... ugh. I don't even have commonly-understood words for this concept. It's like trying to find a word for water in Fish Language. Puritanical? Anti-Spiral? There's something really fucked-up about telling other people to avoid enjoying a valid, valuable part of their life. Overall, your post comes across as if you're someone who kicks puppies, sucks up to everyone above him, and only cares about career advancement. If people in your field say "you have to be crazy" to mean "you have to be a joyless, semi-sociopathic workaholic", tell me what line of work you're in so I can avoid it for the rest of time.

radarsat1 14y ago

I am currently dealing with this. I'm not sure about his specific tips, but the general feeling that this transition is not easy is something I don't feel I was adequately prepared for. I just finished my PhD and started working at a company, and I thought I would really enjoy the job since it's in a fun and exciting field, but honestly the experience has been pretty jarring. I've spent the last 7 years basically in charge of my own research projects, and all of a sudden being tasked to fix someone else's software that I'd never seen before and that was already at quite an advanced stage was just a bit difficult and a shock to my system. Not that I couldn't handle the work technically (I managed to commit a few pretty important bug fixes in my first week), but socially and mentally it was very difficult for me; suddenly not being around any of the people I have become good friends with, and being tied down to such a strict work schedule. 9-to-5 instead of waking up when I feel like it and taking a long coffee break with my friends in the afternoon. I am sort of starting to get used to it, but it sure hasn't been easy.

jtheory 14y ago
I remember this as well -- there's a particular feeling in my gut that I recall, sitting down in front of the computer at 9am, feeling sick and drained already, to work on a task that would be both tedious and difficult and didn't interest me in the slightest.... I could force myself to go ahead and get something done, but it would feel like I was somehow doing permanent damage to my psyche. You have to look for the opportunities (and sometimes make them, once you have the clout to do it), but it's quite possible to get back to the kind of schedule (and better focused/motivated work & life) that you mentioned. In the meantime, get talking with the people around you -- some of them can become friends, and they have some say in what you work on -- while someone probably needs to get this software fixed now, your next task may well be still undecided. If you seem happy with this kind of assignment (and do it well), you're probably going to get more like it.
- radarsat1 14y ago
  Thanks for the support. Yeah, I'm already seriously evaluating my options. I have realized that it's okay if the first job I get may not end up being what I'm looking for.

sown 14y ago

One thing I noticed is that it is very, very lonely. I'm still trying to figure out ways to meet people and make friends, good friends even. No dice. Maybe I'm just not very fun to be around.

quit 14y ago
Or maybe you should stop trying so hard to meet people and make friends and just be
- sown 14y ago
  What do you mean? If I don't try then I just stay at home.
  - quit 14y ago
    I mean that, especially for introverts, trying hard to make friends usually is counterproductive. If instead you start finding things you actually enjoy and start enjoying them (forgetting there's people around) it's easier to engage in productive interactions
    - sown 14y ago
      > If instead you start finding things you actually enjoy and start enjoying them (forgetting there's people around) it's easier to engage in productive interactions I've tried that but I didn't see the same phenomena. But thanks for the suggestion. I also find that I don't really enjoy anything nowadays.
nelsonweiss 14y ago
Sown, Normally I wouldn't go off topic like this but I didn't see any way to contact you and I just wanted to tell you that: a. Don't give up on finding friends. It may seem rough right now but these things have a way of changing over time so just persist and you'll succeed. b. Lighten up. Smile a little. Instead of thinking crap like "I'm just not fun to be around", take a look about and realize "damn, what an amazing world. I have a rough time getting out and meeting people but when I stay in there are millions of people right here with me, just a few feet and two screens away." Things'll work out. Don't worry.. :)

WalterBright 14y ago

Probably what I miss most about college is living off the same hall as most of your friends, who you're around 24 hours a day. There was always something fun going on.

sayemm 14y ago

Recent college grads should read Charlie Hoehn's ebook, Recession-Proof Graduate - http://charliehoehn.com/rpgrad/ http://charliehoehn.com/rpgrad/

JagMicker 14y ago

Here are some things I wish someone would've shared with me... - If you want to thrive in the professional world, get a fucking haircut and at least look the part. - If you think that you can send out a bunch of resumes and be flooded with calls about job offers, you are wrong. - Most of the phrases you've heard in your youth are true. Ex. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". See the above point. If you get a job (or a check) just by sending a resume (or invoice), consider it an anomaly, and yourself lucky. - In life, everyone is only concerned about their own well-being. You've got to learn to highlight 'what's in it for them'. See the above point. - You're on your own, so make your time and actions count!

brotchie 14y ago
> If you get a check just by sending a invoice, consider it an anomaly, and yourself lucky. So very, very true. "Oh you want to get paid for this consulting project huh? Well we can't just wire the money to you, no, please fill out this form so we can put you in our SAP system. Oh, you haven't been paid? well well, you're not in our system. We've finally put you our system, here's a record of our payment to you. no money in my bank account argh!" Direct experience with my country's 3rd largest bank. Once outside regular salaried work, liquidity is more of an issue than solvency. You might have billed 5 months of rent, but your real estate agent doesn't accept unpaid invoices as legal tender....
rb2k_ 14y ago
For software engineering, the "job offers" part still holds up.
csmajor1234 14y ago
I disagree about your second point. I'm a CS Major at a top 10 program, with a pretty good GPA (~3.7). This is a throwaway account btw. During this fall recruiting season, I sent out my resumes to all the top companies, and was offered interviews at every single one. With the exception of two companies, I received offers from everywhere I interviewed, including Amazon, Google, Facebook and Microsoft. I think the market is so hot right now that you CAN get showered with job offers just by sending out a lot of resumes.

JDuMond 14y ago

I graduated Dec. '11. There are three things that I wish I had been told about working after college: 1. Find a mentor. If you have any flexibility in the projects you work on or the people you get to work with choose to work with someone who will be a mentor to you. I think we're all familiar with the benefits of a mentor as a teacher, but there's another important function of a mentor: they can be a "cheerleader". A good mentor will talk you up around his co-workers and management, and make sure that those who don't work directly with know that you are capable of putting out quality work and that you should be considered for more interesting/challenging work in the future. 3. Ask questions. When you start your new job you'll feel like you need to prove yourself as just as capable as everyone who's been working on the same project/codebase/technology for years. So you'll stay late banging your head against the desk trying to solve a problem that has nagged you for days. You finally breakdown and ask an experienced engineer what he thinks, he says, "Oh yeah, I've seen this a hundred times. It tricky the first time you come across it..." and then explains how to fix it in a few minutes. If you had gone to him earlier you could have increased your productivity and saved your self a headache. The more experienced engineers are a resource. If you aren't using all the resources available to you to get work done efficiently, you're not doing your job. 2. If you're unhappy with your work, speak up. Your management cannot read minds. If you find your work soul crushing but you do well on it your management will keep you there until you burnout. At that point you'll rip off your clothes and streak through the halls and your management will think, "I never saw that coming." Your company(probably) wants you to be happy because if you are you'll be more productive and that adds to there bottom line. Let your management know that you would like to do other work and they'll try to move you somewhere you can be happy. It may take time but I've found that just knowing that you management cares goes a long way to easing the pain. If your management does care, start working on your resume and browse wanted ads during lunch.

gregpilling 14y ago
To agree with the JDuMond: 1. If someone gives you good advice, surprise them by taking it. 2. Ask questions. Just not the same ones over and over again, and not ones easily answered by Google. 3. As a manager, remember that I can't tell if you are having a bad day because you are mad at your spouse or mad at me or ???. So just tell me your issue, I would like to help.

JDSD 14y ago

The vast majority of kids who enter college do so right after high school. They are used to summers off, parents sending tuition checks and allowances for rent/living. There is a misunderstanding in todays youth that college is a social club with the side effect of gaining an education. Few kids choose their school on quality of education, but rather how big the parties are/what the scene is like. To me this entire subject reeks of #firstworldproblems, and the fact I don't have much respect for the beaten path or the zombies they churn out(referring to a BA). Life after college isn't hard at all. This generation is simply not used to feeling ANY discomfort or pain in their sheltered little lives. Not going to college and excelling to the point of someone with a degree is not that difficult, though it's more difficult than going to a structured setting to be hand-fed information. (most of college could be condensed into one year study, one year practical) Working in an electronic graveyard in Ghana at age 13 with no parents seems difficult. It seems in places like this, limits of the human experience are tested everyday in terms of what people can and cannot withstand. Spend some time learning how other people live purely for our convenience, and repeat "Graduating college is a difficult transition from one easy thing to the next easy thing." You'll sound ridiculous.

peter_l_downs 14y ago
There is a misunderstanding in todays youth that college is a social club with the side effect of gaining an education. Few kids choose their school on quality of education, but rather how big the parties are/what the scene is like. Source? This seems extremely anecdotal. Life after college isn't hard at all. This generation is simply not used to feeling ANY discomfort or pain in their sheltered little lives. This is hyperbole and personal opinion presented as fact. HN is not the place for this kind of writing.
- jarek 14y ago
  > Source? This seems extremely anecdotal. Source is the darn kids on his lawn.
- 001sky 14y ago
  Asking for "source" on how the world works? LOL Actually, having street smarts would be anecdoatal; <because> Actually having street smarts would be anecdotal. But this is OK. It's the point of the thread...

mhewett 14y ago

As a 55 year old I would say that this is exactly right, especially the part about keeping yourself healthy, both physically and mentally. I have, and it has paid off. I would add one item to the list: Set a 5-year goal and update it every year.

brackin 14y ago

I haven't gone to College, I've gone out from High School and started building a startup. Doesn't apply so much to me because when I wasn't working in school I was up all night getting a few hours of sleep after working on projects.

JacksonGariety 14y ago

Seems like these are instructions for how to live life by default. Instructions on how to fit into the cogs of the system and not fall into depression. In my opinion, life should not be like this. For those who haven't already, you should read this article from HN a few weeks ago: http://www.raptitude.com/2012/07/most-lives-are-lived-by-default/ http://www.raptitude.com/2012/07/most-lives-are-lived-by-def...

dinkumthinkum 14y ago
Yes, it is basically entirely about being not only a cog but a good little cog. Honestly, to anyone reading this stuff and looking for direction or advice on life, don't take from HN. If you listen to anyone on HN at all about life issues, just listen to the ones that tell you not to listen. This crowd is too biased toward one direction that it's going to bias in advice toward that ideal lifestyle. If you really want to be a healthy, skinny, hipster whose goal in life is to increase the share value of the company he works for and make his managers happy then a lot of stuff would probably be very useful; it sounds like a dreadful bore to me. :)

braveheart1723 14y ago

- Don't sell out. Find out what you love whether it's design, programming, assembly, hacking stuff, building stuff, whatever... and do that. If you sell out, at the beginning you might make loads of $$$, it'll be amazing, maybe you'll make more than your dad ever made, maybe you'll buy yourself a 70" TV but trust me... 3 to 5 years in. You'll be that annoying guy that tells all his friends he sold out and really wished to have been an actor, a sportsman, an artist, a musician, an animator. - Save enough $$$ for 6months of living without work, all of a sudden you'll be a lot pickier on what you work on. - watch http://www.beautyisembarrassing.com/ http://www.beautyisembarrassing.com/

michaelochurch 14y ago

What got me in the adult world was "4.0 syndrome". (Well, my actual GPA wasn't 4.0, but close.) Not that I was used to getting great grades and had a rude awakening, because school was a lot more intellectually challenging than 95+ percent of what I encountered in the real world, but that school led me to believe the world was more meritocratic, fair, and straight-forward than it actually is. For example, some teachers were better than others-- I actually lucked out and had mostly good ones-- but I never had a teacher who went out of his way to be unfair. But I've had more than one manager who was outright scummy. School doesn't prepare you for this, because while there are demanding teachers, unfair or corrupt ones (while they exist) are extraordinarily rare. Also, in college, you have career coherence. The work that is put in front of you is designed to teach you the basic concepts, so you'll usually learn something from it. The rare cases where this isn't the case are when you have outright incompetent professors. Either way, though, if you do the work you will usually get the knowledge and credibility that you need for your career. Useless, unappreciated busy-work is quite rare in college, but it's common in the work world. To get anything close to 100% career coherence at work, you have to actively manage your career. If you just do what your manager tells you to do, you're probably looking at 25%, which means you get 1 year of real progress per 4 of work. In the real world, the deadlines aren't well-tested. They might be unrealistic or make no sense. The work isn't designed to teach you things, and if you graduate past the work you're being assigned and are ready to move on, that comes down more to social skills than anything else. In school, you can skip grades. In work, you actually need social engineering (or frequent job changes) to progress faster than the slow players for whom the typical track is designed. "4.0 Syndrome" is seen heavily in startups and investment banking analyst programs, because there's a crop of 22-year-olds every year who will meet every "deadline" no matter how ridiculous. They haven't learned that many real-world "deadlines" are just made up times that are often impossible to meet. (In school, they're also "made up times", but there are a large number of people facing the same deadlines, and they'll generally moved if they're really unreasonable.) It's also a dangerous trait to have, because it can lead you to over-perform at work, which in most office cultures is more dangerous than underperforming because (a) you become a target for adversity, and (b) you lose social polish if you overwork yourself, and social success is more important than raw "performance".

14y ago

frozenport 14y ago

>>Play with your schedule. Wake up earlier, go to bed later. Time-shifting is your friend. This is bad advice, in college you can skip classes and choose where to fail, you can't skip meetings and your mistakes live can't be dismissed. Having an inconsistent sleep schedule is a great way to mess up your life.

jtheory 14y ago

Advice I'd add: pay careful attention to the responsibilities you take on. Owning a car -- you have to maintain it, possibly repair it occasionally, insure it, etc.. A pet is quite a large one -- want to travel for a few months? And you'll probably have that dog for the next 10-15 years, and they may get sick along the way. Owning a house, of course, but also renting -- you have to deal with minor damage, rent, keeping the landlord informed ("I didn't notice water started leaking in during the winter" is very bad). Debt, of course -- what if you can't quit an exhausting job you detest, because you're paying down large debts? Many of these things are rewarding (I love having a dog, for example, though it does make some things hard...) -- I'm not saying don't do them, just realize what you're trading. Take on new responsibilities one at a time, and do it with your eyes open. I personally wish I'd been slower to take on new responsibilities when I was first out of college -- my first salary seemed huge, and so I traded up my $900 car for a $12K one, married my long-time girlfriend in a way-too-expensive wedding, and got a puppy... not mistakes, per se, but it was all much too fast.