3 ms·

Why My Father Is Wrong: A Defense of Guitar Hero

52 points by Tomte 2mo ago

zirkonit 2mo ago
At some point, the rabid anti-generative AI crowd becomes tiring. This is extremely masturbatory and very intellectually lazy piece of writing whose only purpose is to raise cheers from the same echo chamber an author is in.
- otabdeveloper4 2mo ago
  It's a reaction. Nobody would be "anti-AI" if AI wasn't being shoved into everything while at the same time shaming you like you're stupid for not enjoying literal slop.
  - foo12bar 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - happymellon 2mo ago
      I do, and I deal with it all the time. Sometimes I get code handed to review that has to same variables set multiple times, additional classes/methods/functions added that aren't used, and when questioned I get a shrug as a response. Slop. Sometimes they review it and tidy before handing it over. Much like although we have printing presses, hopefully someone reviews it to make sure that they actually printed square on the page. Not slop. The problem is that we have lazy people and mandatory LLM usage has forced us to confront these people that don't even proof what they write. Before they would just hide in the background and not do anything. Literal slop.
      - foo12bar 2mo ago
        No, this isn't what I mean. What does the word "literal" mean to you? Because to me it means the opposite of figurative. Ex., if I say "It literally costs an arm and a leg", that means I'm really paying in body parts. Or if I say "Your book bag literally weighs a ton", it means I'm saying it's actually 2000 lbs. and would take heavy machinery to lift it. Or in this case, you are saying the "slop" program or code somehow actually transformed into some mystery food melted into a gelatinous dish when you add "literal" to it.
        debugnik 2mo ago
        Welcome to hyperbole.
        otabdeveloper4 2mo ago
        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slop https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slop > broadly : a product of little or no value : rubbish
hrunt 2mo ago
These two articles remind me of the old Point/Counterpoint from the Onion[0]. I feel like someone wrote the first article so they could write the second as a bit of absurdity. [0]https://theonion.com/opinion/point-counterpoint/ https://theonion.com/opinion/point-counterpoint/
- mcphage 2mo ago
  Just to share, from that list, this one is a classic: https://theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mideast-region-and-1819594296/ https://theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mi...
bjelkeman-again 2mo ago
Even better: pick up Rocksmith, or one of the many clones being built by people using <ghasp> LLMs, and learn to play a real guitar. I did, and I now play bass in a hardrock/metall band. One of my guitarist started with guitar hero, moved on to Rocksmith, and here we are. Band practice tonight for a gig at one of the best little music venues in Stockholm, Sweden next month. (Which I am arranging.) Good things come from doing fun things.
- KingFelix 2mo ago
  Sweet!!! Go shred!!! post some music!
- wodenokoto 2mo ago
  Went to the website and I still don't really understand what it is, other than "learn to play the guitar/bass/keyboard for free", which can be a million things. I assume you use a real instrument to play the game, but how? Do I connect my guitar to my PC? How? If not, how can it give me feedback? If I don't use a real instrument, then what?
  - happymellon 2mo ago
    Rocksmith requires a dongle to connect your guitar to the USB.
    - cheeseomlit 2mo ago
      It's not required, there are community mods/plugins that allow you to use something like a scarlett interface instead
  - Hamuko 2mo ago
    >I assume you use a real instrument to play the game, but how? Do I connect my guitar to my PC? I use Yousician on my Mac to learn the guitar and the bass, and you just connect your instrument via an audio interface to the computer, and it gets your playing from that. I use a fourth-generation Scarlett Solo as my interface. I presume the Rocksmith dongle is ultimately just an audio interface too. Probably a pretty cheap one too.
rcleveng 2mo ago
I loved guitar hero. Back before my interview with Google, I was super nervous, so I played guitar hero for a few hours in the morning before going down to Mountain View for the interview. It worked, I needed something to take my mind off of the CLR algo book I had been cramming to re-remember things forgotten. Fun times!
Ouman 2mo ago
A lot of the tension around generative AI comes from the fact that the abstraction layer is often presented as interchangeable with the underlying craft
happymellon 2mo ago
Presumably in the same manner that I didn't play Celeste to become good at mountain climbing...
p0w3n3d 2mo ago
Guitar hero was amazing. I wonder if it is possible to still buy the gear
- spicyjpeg 2mo ago
  The wiki of Guitar Hero simulator Clone Hero has extensive information on controllers [1]. Some of them can still be purchased brand new but overall the most popular option seems to be to acquire (and sometimes modify) a used first-party controller from back in the day, as the quality of newly manufactured guitars can be inconsistent given the lack of demand. You may also consider trying out other rhythm games such as the home versions of Beatmania IIDX [2], Sound Voltex [3] or Taiko no Tatsujin, for which high-quality arcade accurate controllers are readily available brand new (if somewhat expensive). There are plenty of modern titles that are playable with nothing more than a keyboard and mouse as well, so you are spoiled for choice if you are not looking for a Guitar-Hero-like experience specifically. [1] https://wiki.clonehero.net/books/guitars-drums-controllers/page/getting-started https://wiki.clonehero.net/books/guitars-drums-controllers/p... [2] https://iidx.org/ https://iidx.org/ [3] https://sdvx.org/ https://sdvx.org/
- graveemaster 2mo ago
  Old console guitar equipment can be found online at a higher price than I'd like, but honestly people mention finding the controllers at Goodwill and other thrift shops for next to nothing. Clone hero feels just like guitar hero with the bonus of being able to add new community mapped songs to give you an endless library to shred.
- VCFundedGenYer 2mo ago
  Harmonix was swallowed up by Epic but they occasionally release "Fortnite Festival Guitars" which IIRC are compatible with Rock Band 4, and if you connect them to a PC somehow they will also work with games like Clone Hero. For the legacy equipment, you're going to have to go thrifting and hope you find what you're looking for.
Kim_Bruning 2mo ago
I've now seen some actual high-effort high-skill applications of AI tools starting to emerge. So, it's not ALL low skill. But the bottom rung of the ladder is very easy to reach, and it seems pretty much everyone has a "slop generation phase" besides. I surmise that most people don't show you their slop/practice work, else the world would already be drowning as is. The few that actually do put their bad early work out there dominate the landscape though. It turns out that some people get past the practice stage. Maybe most, eventually, hopefully?
28304283409234 2mo ago
Playing games have always been stelling stones into real life. For all animals. Including humans. So I don't really get this discussion. And also, similar game Rock Band triggered three Mexican kids to become an actual (rather succesful) rockband. Which triggered the makers Harmonic to include their song in the next version of Rock Band. Check out The Warning!
VCFundedGenYer 2mo ago
I remember that thread and I also thought it was way off base. Guitar Hero/Rock Band were gateways to getting into a huge and deep music library, as well getting me interested in real guitar and learning how to play real drums. The criticism in that previous article was incredibly wrong.

52 points by Tomte 2mo ago

At some point, the rabid anti-generative AI crowd becomes tiring. This is extremely masturbatory and very intellectually lazy piece of writing whose only purpose is to raise cheers from the same echo chamber an author is in.

otabdeveloper4 2mo ago
It's a reaction. Nobody would be "anti-AI" if AI wasn't being shoved into everything while at the same time shaming you like you're stupid for not enjoying literal slop.
- foo12bar 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - happymellon 2mo ago
    I do, and I deal with it all the time. Sometimes I get code handed to review that has to same variables set multiple times, additional classes/methods/functions added that aren't used, and when questioned I get a shrug as a response. Slop. Sometimes they review it and tidy before handing it over. Much like although we have printing presses, hopefully someone reviews it to make sure that they actually printed square on the page. Not slop. The problem is that we have lazy people and mandatory LLM usage has forced us to confront these people that don't even proof what they write. Before they would just hide in the background and not do anything. Literal slop.
    - foo12bar 2mo ago
      No, this isn't what I mean. What does the word "literal" mean to you? Because to me it means the opposite of figurative. Ex., if I say "It literally costs an arm and a leg", that means I'm really paying in body parts. Or if I say "Your book bag literally weighs a ton", it means I'm saying it's actually 2000 lbs. and would take heavy machinery to lift it. Or in this case, you are saying the "slop" program or code somehow actually transformed into some mystery food melted into a gelatinous dish when you add "literal" to it.
      - debugnik 2mo ago
        Welcome to hyperbole.
      - otabdeveloper4 2mo ago
        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slop https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slop > broadly : a product of little or no value : rubbish

hrunt 2mo ago

These two articles remind me of the old Point/Counterpoint from the Onion[0]. I feel like someone wrote the first article so they could write the second as a bit of absurdity. [0]https://theonion.com/opinion/point-counterpoint/ https://theonion.com/opinion/point-counterpoint/

mcphage 2mo ago
Just to share, from that list, this one is a classic: https://theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mideast-region-and-1819594296/ https://theonion.com/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mi...

bjelkeman-again 2mo ago

Even better: pick up Rocksmith, or one of the many clones being built by people using <ghasp> LLMs, and learn to play a real guitar. I did, and I now play bass in a hardrock/metall band. One of my guitarist started with guitar hero, moved on to Rocksmith, and here we are. Band practice tonight for a gig at one of the best little music venues in Stockholm, Sweden next month. (Which I am arranging.) Good things come from doing fun things.

KingFelix 2mo ago
Sweet!!! Go shred!!! post some music!
wodenokoto 2mo ago
Went to the website and I still don't really understand what it is, other than "learn to play the guitar/bass/keyboard for free", which can be a million things. I assume you use a real instrument to play the game, but how? Do I connect my guitar to my PC? How? If not, how can it give me feedback? If I don't use a real instrument, then what?
- happymellon 2mo ago
  Rocksmith requires a dongle to connect your guitar to the USB.
  - cheeseomlit 2mo ago
    It's not required, there are community mods/plugins that allow you to use something like a scarlett interface instead
- Hamuko 2mo ago
  >I assume you use a real instrument to play the game, but how? Do I connect my guitar to my PC? I use Yousician on my Mac to learn the guitar and the bass, and you just connect your instrument via an audio interface to the computer, and it gets your playing from that. I use a fourth-generation Scarlett Solo as my interface. I presume the Rocksmith dongle is ultimately just an audio interface too. Probably a pretty cheap one too.

rcleveng 2mo ago

I loved guitar hero. Back before my interview with Google, I was super nervous, so I played guitar hero for a few hours in the morning before going down to Mountain View for the interview. It worked, I needed something to take my mind off of the CLR algo book I had been cramming to re-remember things forgotten. Fun times!

Ouman 2mo ago

A lot of the tension around generative AI comes from the fact that the abstraction layer is often presented as interchangeable with the underlying craft

happymellon 2mo ago

Presumably in the same manner that I didn't play Celeste to become good at mountain climbing...

p0w3n3d 2mo ago

Guitar hero was amazing. I wonder if it is possible to still buy the gear

spicyjpeg 2mo ago
The wiki of Guitar Hero simulator Clone Hero has extensive information on controllers [1]. Some of them can still be purchased brand new but overall the most popular option seems to be to acquire (and sometimes modify) a used first-party controller from back in the day, as the quality of newly manufactured guitars can be inconsistent given the lack of demand. You may also consider trying out other rhythm games such as the home versions of Beatmania IIDX [2], Sound Voltex [3] or Taiko no Tatsujin, for which high-quality arcade accurate controllers are readily available brand new (if somewhat expensive). There are plenty of modern titles that are playable with nothing more than a keyboard and mouse as well, so you are spoiled for choice if you are not looking for a Guitar-Hero-like experience specifically. [1] https://wiki.clonehero.net/books/guitars-drums-controllers/page/getting-started https://wiki.clonehero.net/books/guitars-drums-controllers/p... [2] https://iidx.org/ https://iidx.org/ [3] https://sdvx.org/ https://sdvx.org/
graveemaster 2mo ago
Old console guitar equipment can be found online at a higher price than I'd like, but honestly people mention finding the controllers at Goodwill and other thrift shops for next to nothing. Clone hero feels just like guitar hero with the bonus of being able to add new community mapped songs to give you an endless library to shred.
VCFundedGenYer 2mo ago
Harmonix was swallowed up by Epic but they occasionally release "Fortnite Festival Guitars" which IIRC are compatible with Rock Band 4, and if you connect them to a PC somehow they will also work with games like Clone Hero. For the legacy equipment, you're going to have to go thrifting and hope you find what you're looking for.

Kim_Bruning 2mo ago

I've now seen some actual high-effort high-skill applications of AI tools starting to emerge. So, it's not ALL low skill. But the bottom rung of the ladder is very easy to reach, and it seems pretty much everyone has a "slop generation phase" besides. I surmise that most people don't show you their slop/practice work, else the world would already be drowning as is. The few that actually do put their bad early work out there dominate the landscape though. It turns out that some people get past the practice stage. Maybe most, eventually, hopefully?

28304283409234 2mo ago

Playing games have always been stelling stones into real life. For all animals. Including humans. So I don't really get this discussion. And also, similar game Rock Band triggered three Mexican kids to become an actual (rather succesful) rockband. Which triggered the makers Harmonic to include their song in the next version of Rock Band. Check out The Warning!

VCFundedGenYer 2mo ago

I remember that thread and I also thought it was way off base. Guitar Hero/Rock Band were gateways to getting into a huge and deep music library, as well getting me interested in real guitar and learning how to play real drums. The criticism in that previous article was incredibly wrong.