6 ms·

Flock Cameras Can Track Every Car in America. Police Love Them. Citizens Don't

66 points by pseudolus 2mo ago

pseudolus 2mo ago
https://archive.ph/LPQQX https://archive.ph/LPQQX
- waltwalther 2mo ago
  Thank you.
Morromist 2mo ago
Its commonly said by people who seem to love this tech that we don't get to have a right to privacy in public spaces (anywhere but shut inside our houses with the window blinds drawn) but it appears now we also don't have a right not to be surveilled intensely, our every movement recorded, tracked and noted down permanantly, analysed with Algorithms & scrutenized for potential crimes. Land of freedom they say.
- King-Aaron 2mo ago
  I frankly do not trust a single word or single opinion of a person that doesn't see the immense problem with this kind of surveillance technology. They are either not arguing in good faith, making me question their entire agenda, or are simply not equipped to understand the implications.
  - ButlerianJihad 2mo ago
    Have you ever seen Wim Wenders’ original, “Wings of Desire”? I heartily recommend it to anyone who is irrationally opposed to state surveillance, (or, by extension if you simply resent the idea of an omniscient God) just because it is an achingly beautiful and true film that proposes a more reasonable viewpoint.
    - PyWoody 2mo ago
      I'll bite: How is a movie about an angel falling in love with a trapeze artist pro state surveillance?
    - King-Aaron 2mo ago
      > Have you ever seen Wim Wenders’ original, “Wings of Desire”? Literally never heard of it, and honestly I'm not sure I care to if your response to my comment is thinking I'm "irrationally opposed to state surveillance".
      - PyWoody 2mo ago
        Wings of Desire is a beautiful movie. It's probably my all time favorite. Bruno Ganz is sensational in it and Peter Falk has some great scenes, too.
        King-Aaron 2mo ago
        Did it cure you of an irrational aversion to being tracked by the government and corporate surveillance apparatus?
        PyWoody 2mo ago
        No, but it cures me ennui every time. 10/10. Would recommended if in tailspin.
    - poopbutt16 2mo ago
      Will it still apply if I'm rationally opposed to state surveillance? Wait, lol do you thing an omniscient god and the state police are the same thing?
    - iamnothere 2mo ago
      In response I will offer “The Lives of Others.” Fiction, but historically grounded.
- tehlike 2mo ago
  People who support second amendment to stand against government tyranny love to give government power to do tyranny.
  - AngryData 2mo ago
    Plenty of leftists in rural areas that love the 2nd amendment too.
    - bestouff 2mo ago
      I don't think we have the same definition of the word "leftist".
      - ButlerianJihad 2mo ago
        You would be surprised at how many people at all points of the spectrum are armed up. Many, many LGBTQ+ people have taken measures to defend themselves and loved ones. In fact, more than one has gone on the offense and committed highly-publicized ideological homicide. I could not personally say where on the spectrum are narcos and cartel members, but the way they are supported and abetted by leftists while also being heavily armed and well-versed, they are full-throated 2A supporters by any measure. It is perfectly typical, and understandable, for any marginalized group to resort to weapons and self-defense techniques, and it is also logical for their backlash and rage to be so great that it goes beyond defense. This will only increase over time in the United States, and elsewhere.
        DaSHacka 2mo ago
        So, these leftists supporting the 2A only do so because they can use them to assassinate peaceful speakers at colleges? You're not exactly painting a good look for them.
        seanicus 2mo ago
        The Tree of Liberty is looking a little thirsty...
- rconti 2mo ago
  They say "you don't have an expectation of privacy driving a car on a public road/your license plate is public info". They don't address the fact that these are cameras, not ALPRs. They collect vehicle metadata. We have no way of knowing what other metadata they collect but don't "use". We'll have no idea when the software update goes out that adds facial recognition if it's not already there.
  - xtiansimon 2mo ago
    > “…no way of knowing what other metadata they collect…” I would say ‘aggregation’ is my concern. Flock camera being one _instrument_ in an orchestra of surveillance.
  - StevePrefontain 2mo ago
    They have already added the ability for these cameras to scrape Bluetooth metadata from phones passing by as well so they know who is in the car with you as well
- iamnothere 2mo ago
  Wait until 6G “wireless sensing” provides a clear map of your house and everyone in it. Apparently it may even have a good enough resolution to process vibrations into audio. Check out page 41, it’s wild, cell towers could monitor your health as you walk around: https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_gr/ISC/001_099/001/01.01.01_60/gr_ISC001v010101p.pdf https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_gr/ISC/001_099/001/01.01.0... I look forward to the updated talking points. I’m sure it won’t be long before we hear “you don’t have a right to privacy except in your thoughts.”
  - Morromist 2mo ago
    I can see a future coming soon where everyone has cameras in their house and voluntarily sends the data to insurance companies for lower rates. If most people agree to do it then it could basically become manditory if you want insurance. Alexa is already this with audio and lots of people I know already have their house completely crammed with cameras for no particular reason at all.
rsalus 2mo ago
Regardless of the benefits (of which there are a few, despite what fellow detractors may say), I am completely unwilling to submit myself to mass surveillance. Once that kind of power is obtained by the state, it will be abused. The article already cites several instances of this, including a police officer using it to stalk someone. And let alone the malicious usage, what if there are simply errors in the software or mistakes made by human operators? I don't trust police departments and public officials to implement this capability competently.
glenda 2mo ago
Interestingly "Police love them, citizens don't" also applies to police themselves
wwarner 2mo ago
Unpopular opinion: I’m fine with cameras if they can be shown to solve crimes and lower the crime rate. No, I’m not ok with ICE surveillance, or secret police punishing free thinkers, but the extreme anti position simply cedes the technology to the authoritarians. So basically, if you’re promising London safety and the freedom and safeguards of the UK, I’m all for it!
- lowbloodsugar 2mo ago
  >So basically, if you’re promising London safety and the freedom and safeguards of the UK, I’m all for it! Is this sarcasm? A good friend is a criminal defense barrister and his opinion does not match yours on the justice perspective. Meanwhile two good friends were hospitalized in two separate incidents in London. Just random violence. "Nothing we can do" said coppers. Daily you tube videos of pickpockets targeting tourists. etc. Unless you are very rich, London's surveillance state isn't helping you. Bonus: the Mayor of London and the Mayor of the City of London are different people, because the City of London is a semi-independent state with different police force. IIRC the Tower of London, Tower Bridge and St Pauls are within the "square mile".
  - wwarner 2mo ago
    Uh, I guess you haven't compared my town's crime rate to London's. I'm for curtailing people's gun rights as well, for essentially the same reason as I'm for more cameras. There was an apparently random shooting at an intersection not far from me, and the shooter escaped in a car. The police pieced together some footage from the two private cameras that showed the car first getting some gas, and then parking before the shooting. They found the driver and he confessed to the shooting.
    - lowbloodsugar 2mo ago
      Perfect dystopia. Make sure all criminals have guns, then tell citizens "Look! We used the surveillance state to catch this one criminal!" Not all criminals. Certainly not rich criminals. Just enough of the "wrong kind" to make the news now and again, keep you scared and voting the right way. Like, did you know that more money is stolen via wage theft, than all of shoplifting and burglary combined? You think that's unrelated? The solution to gun violence is not surveillance state - because the state benefits from gun violence. The solution to gun violence is ending poverty and inequality.
allenrb 2mo ago
Care to take a guess who wins when an issue comes down to citizens vs police?
- oofoe 2mo ago
  You're either police... or little people.
betaby 2mo ago
There is no benefit of tracking for citizens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUNZZWq1dXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUNZZWq1dXM
lowbloodsugar 2mo ago
Might be time for a "Take your license plates off" day of protest.
rconti 2mo ago
Paying a private company to record everyone's phone calls and texts and emails and putting them in a searchable database will also help solve some crimes. Should we do that? How is this any different?
rconti 2mo ago
The most aggressive anti-surveillance legislation we can muster in the US seems to be "30 day retention". How is this a reasonable compromise? I don't want surveillance cameras at all, but a neutral position might sound something like "sure, put up cameras everywhere, and once you get a warrant or probable cause (sigh), you can punch in the plate number and police will get notified when they see that car." Now, obviously it's a surveillance state that's ripe for abuse and relies on trust in government and process, but at _least_ it's predicated on some level of suspicion. "Record and catalog every piece of movement all these cameras see, store it for a long time, hand it over to whatever person with access to the system feels like searching it, send huge amounts of data secretly in response to National Security Letters, and while we're at it, just |tee the whole feed to the CIA. Maybe tracking everyone all the time will come in handy some day!" just seems _batshit insane_. It's not even in the REALM of possibly-constitutional from where I sit. And yet the judge in the Norfolk, VA case said "well, this technology COULD represent a 4th amendment violation in the future, but 200 cameras in our town isn't so bad". What???
ChrisArchitect 2mo ago
non-paywall: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/10/us/flock-cameras-can-track-every-car-in-america-police-love-them-citizens-dont.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4lA.eoLs._UvdkYUgnGXh&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/10/us/flock-cameras-can-trac...
ChrisArchitect 2mo ago
Related video report format: https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000011056273/the-surveillance-network-tracking-cars-across-the-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000011056273/the-surveil... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49250660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49250660)

66 points by pseudolus 2mo ago

pseudolus 2mo ago

https://archive.ph/LPQQX https://archive.ph/LPQQX

waltwalther 2mo ago
Thank you.

Morromist 2mo ago

Its commonly said by people who seem to love this tech that we don't get to have a right to privacy in public spaces (anywhere but shut inside our houses with the window blinds drawn) but it appears now we also don't have a right not to be surveilled intensely, our every movement recorded, tracked and noted down permanantly, analysed with Algorithms & scrutenized for potential crimes. Land of freedom they say.

King-Aaron 2mo ago
I frankly do not trust a single word or single opinion of a person that doesn't see the immense problem with this kind of surveillance technology. They are either not arguing in good faith, making me question their entire agenda, or are simply not equipped to understand the implications.
- ButlerianJihad 2mo ago
  Have you ever seen Wim Wenders’ original, “Wings of Desire”? I heartily recommend it to anyone who is irrationally opposed to state surveillance, (or, by extension if you simply resent the idea of an omniscient God) just because it is an achingly beautiful and true film that proposes a more reasonable viewpoint.
  - PyWoody 2mo ago
    I'll bite: How is a movie about an angel falling in love with a trapeze artist pro state surveillance?
  - King-Aaron 2mo ago
    > Have you ever seen Wim Wenders’ original, “Wings of Desire”? Literally never heard of it, and honestly I'm not sure I care to if your response to my comment is thinking I'm "irrationally opposed to state surveillance".
    - PyWoody 2mo ago
      Wings of Desire is a beautiful movie. It's probably my all time favorite. Bruno Ganz is sensational in it and Peter Falk has some great scenes, too.
      - King-Aaron 2mo ago
        Did it cure you of an irrational aversion to being tracked by the government and corporate surveillance apparatus?
        PyWoody 2mo ago
        No, but it cures me ennui every time. 10/10. Would recommended if in tailspin.
  - poopbutt16 2mo ago
    Will it still apply if I'm rationally opposed to state surveillance? Wait, lol do you thing an omniscient god and the state police are the same thing?
  - iamnothere 2mo ago
    In response I will offer “The Lives of Others.” Fiction, but historically grounded.
tehlike 2mo ago
People who support second amendment to stand against government tyranny love to give government power to do tyranny.
- AngryData 2mo ago
  Plenty of leftists in rural areas that love the 2nd amendment too.
  - bestouff 2mo ago
    I don't think we have the same definition of the word "leftist".
    - ButlerianJihad 2mo ago
      You would be surprised at how many people at all points of the spectrum are armed up. Many, many LGBTQ+ people have taken measures to defend themselves and loved ones. In fact, more than one has gone on the offense and committed highly-publicized ideological homicide. I could not personally say where on the spectrum are narcos and cartel members, but the way they are supported and abetted by leftists while also being heavily armed and well-versed, they are full-throated 2A supporters by any measure. It is perfectly typical, and understandable, for any marginalized group to resort to weapons and self-defense techniques, and it is also logical for their backlash and rage to be so great that it goes beyond defense. This will only increase over time in the United States, and elsewhere.
      - DaSHacka 2mo ago
        So, these leftists supporting the 2A only do so because they can use them to assassinate peaceful speakers at colleges? You're not exactly painting a good look for them.
        seanicus 2mo ago
        The Tree of Liberty is looking a little thirsty...
rconti 2mo ago
They say "you don't have an expectation of privacy driving a car on a public road/your license plate is public info". They don't address the fact that these are cameras, not ALPRs. They collect vehicle metadata. We have no way of knowing what other metadata they collect but don't "use". We'll have no idea when the software update goes out that adds facial recognition if it's not already there.
- xtiansimon 2mo ago
  > “…no way of knowing what other metadata they collect…” I would say ‘aggregation’ is my concern. Flock camera being one _instrument_ in an orchestra of surveillance.
- StevePrefontain 2mo ago
  They have already added the ability for these cameras to scrape Bluetooth metadata from phones passing by as well so they know who is in the car with you as well
iamnothere 2mo ago
Wait until 6G “wireless sensing” provides a clear map of your house and everyone in it. Apparently it may even have a good enough resolution to process vibrations into audio. Check out page 41, it’s wild, cell towers could monitor your health as you walk around: https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_gr/ISC/001_099/001/01.01.01_60/gr_ISC001v010101p.pdf https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_gr/ISC/001_099/001/01.01.0... I look forward to the updated talking points. I’m sure it won’t be long before we hear “you don’t have a right to privacy except in your thoughts.”
- Morromist 2mo ago
  I can see a future coming soon where everyone has cameras in their house and voluntarily sends the data to insurance companies for lower rates. If most people agree to do it then it could basically become manditory if you want insurance. Alexa is already this with audio and lots of people I know already have their house completely crammed with cameras for no particular reason at all.

rsalus 2mo ago

Regardless of the benefits (of which there are a few, despite what fellow detractors may say), I am completely unwilling to submit myself to mass surveillance. Once that kind of power is obtained by the state, it will be abused. The article already cites several instances of this, including a police officer using it to stalk someone. And let alone the malicious usage, what if there are simply errors in the software or mistakes made by human operators? I don't trust police departments and public officials to implement this capability competently.

glenda 2mo ago

Interestingly "Police love them, citizens don't" also applies to police themselves

wwarner 2mo ago

Unpopular opinion: I’m fine with cameras if they can be shown to solve crimes and lower the crime rate. No, I’m not ok with ICE surveillance, or secret police punishing free thinkers, but the extreme anti position simply cedes the technology to the authoritarians. So basically, if you’re promising London safety and the freedom and safeguards of the UK, I’m all for it!

lowbloodsugar 2mo ago
>So basically, if you’re promising London safety and the freedom and safeguards of the UK, I’m all for it! Is this sarcasm? A good friend is a criminal defense barrister and his opinion does not match yours on the justice perspective. Meanwhile two good friends were hospitalized in two separate incidents in London. Just random violence. "Nothing we can do" said coppers. Daily you tube videos of pickpockets targeting tourists. etc. Unless you are very rich, London's surveillance state isn't helping you. Bonus: the Mayor of London and the Mayor of the City of London are different people, because the City of London is a semi-independent state with different police force. IIRC the Tower of London, Tower Bridge and St Pauls are within the "square mile".
- wwarner 2mo ago
  Uh, I guess you haven't compared my town's crime rate to London's. I'm for curtailing people's gun rights as well, for essentially the same reason as I'm for more cameras. There was an apparently random shooting at an intersection not far from me, and the shooter escaped in a car. The police pieced together some footage from the two private cameras that showed the car first getting some gas, and then parking before the shooting. They found the driver and he confessed to the shooting.
  - lowbloodsugar 2mo ago
    Perfect dystopia. Make sure all criminals have guns, then tell citizens "Look! We used the surveillance state to catch this one criminal!" Not all criminals. Certainly not rich criminals. Just enough of the "wrong kind" to make the news now and again, keep you scared and voting the right way. Like, did you know that more money is stolen via wage theft, than all of shoplifting and burglary combined? You think that's unrelated? The solution to gun violence is not surveillance state - because the state benefits from gun violence. The solution to gun violence is ending poverty and inequality.

allenrb 2mo ago

Care to take a guess who wins when an issue comes down to citizens vs police?

oofoe 2mo ago
You're either police... or little people.

betaby 2mo ago

There is no benefit of tracking for citizens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUNZZWq1dXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUNZZWq1dXM

lowbloodsugar 2mo ago

Might be time for a "Take your license plates off" day of protest.

rconti 2mo ago

Paying a private company to record everyone's phone calls and texts and emails and putting them in a searchable database will also help solve some crimes. Should we do that? How is this any different?

rconti 2mo ago

The most aggressive anti-surveillance legislation we can muster in the US seems to be "30 day retention". How is this a reasonable compromise? I don't want surveillance cameras at all, but a neutral position might sound something like "sure, put up cameras everywhere, and once you get a warrant or probable cause (sigh), you can punch in the plate number and police will get notified when they see that car." Now, obviously it's a surveillance state that's ripe for abuse and relies on trust in government and process, but at _least_ it's predicated on some level of suspicion. "Record and catalog every piece of movement all these cameras see, store it for a long time, hand it over to whatever person with access to the system feels like searching it, send huge amounts of data secretly in response to National Security Letters, and while we're at it, just |tee the whole feed to the CIA. Maybe tracking everyone all the time will come in handy some day!" just seems _batshit insane_. It's not even in the REALM of possibly-constitutional from where I sit. And yet the judge in the Norfolk, VA case said "well, this technology COULD represent a 4th amendment violation in the future, but 200 cameras in our town isn't so bad". What???

ChrisArchitect 2mo ago

non-paywall: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/10/us/flock-cameras-can-track-every-car-in-america-police-love-them-citizens-dont.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4lA.eoLs._UvdkYUgnGXh&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/10/us/flock-cameras-can-trac...

ChrisArchitect 2mo ago

Related video report format: https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000011056273/the-surveillance-network-tracking-cars-across-the-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000011056273/the-surveil... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49250660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49250660)