4 ms·

Except I don’t use “hard drugs” I use a dose of Adderall prescribed to children to correct a specific chemical imbalance that is exceptionally well documented.

Except I don’t use “hard drugs” I use a dose of Adderall prescribed to children to correct a specific chemical imbalance that is exceptionally well documented. I could, and did for a while, live without such medication and my basic quality of life was significantly worse. Not because of society, but because of my brain. I am the person being told that I don’t need a stimulant by the condescending rich person, and I have to say that mental health is far too nuanced for casual armchair debate about how society is forcing people to need this drug or that drug. The point I wanted to convey is that this topic is incredibly specific to the individual, and “generalizations” MUST use extensive qualifiers to even come close to being accurate.

thin_carapace 2mo ago
rather than attributing this to the brain or system inherently, it seems more accurate to focus on the position of the brain relative to the system. I think that's what the other person was trying to get at, but you're already aware based on how you specifically qualified this. I don't think it's fair to bring up a topic and then shut down resulting discussion as non nuanced, public forums probably aren't a good idea if youre not comfortable with receiving conflicting takes. like, amphetamine is a hard drug regardless as to whether or not a legal framework encourages its usage. and I have friends who immediately received their amphetamine script after a quick chat and an A4 questionnaire, which didn't involve any assessment of brain chemical imbalance, therefore brain chemical imbalance might be a valid theory but it's irrelevant practically. and this discussion may be individual specific, but amphetamine prescription rates are sky rocketing, so at some point the generalized conversation does need to take place as to how many people can get dosed before problems start happening (eg widespread heart issues due to long term hard stimulant consumption)
- natpalmer1776 2mo ago
  Oh I’m fine with receiving conflicting takes. I wouldn’t post any of this on e.g. reddit because it offers no value to the users there. HN is a different crowd. I am “shutting down” comments here based on their perceived merit, not because they personally offend my sensibilities. I am comfortable holding people here to a higher standard of rigor, and accept when my own comments are responded to in kind, because that is the type of discourse I come here for! Pharmacologically speaking, classifying Adderall as a hard drug by industry terminology standards requires taking the patient into account, the dosage, and its effects on the patient. In the case I was referring to (mine) it is not a hard drug. The chemical imbalance I refer to isn’t something that is easily and REPEATABLY tested for and prescription of the drug itself is heavily guided by the individual respondent because that is how most psychiatric diagnostics are performed. The chemical imbalance is not the exact same between patients, and ADD/ADHD could be classified as multiple physiological conditions that all overlap into a single group of symptoms. For the purposes of treating it, prescribing a medication that treats a large subset of the underlying causes with no permanent adverse side effects if you treat the “wrong one” is largely good enough for most medical systems. Follow up appointments with providers checking with patients to find the right medication for their brain is part of that process. So yeah, you can fill out a questionnaire and get amphetamines you don’t need, or don’t treat your specific condition. That doesn’t invalidate the scientific research that has linked the symptom to the one of n chemical causes in the brain. So in discussions of both philosophical introspection of our society as well as academic discussion of drugs, my original comment is entirely relevant to those informed on this ONE specific mental disorder, of which there are MANY more that are equally as nuanced.
  - thin_carapace 2mo ago
    hard drugs wreck the body and cause dependency. amphetamine does both those things regardless as to whether an accredited body claims otherwise. if you think it's ok to dose swathes of the population with hard drugs because it's 'good enough' then we completely disagree and I start to move more towards the other guy's viewpoint where it seems you are supporting the system over individuals. it isn't easy for non amphetamine users to parse long extracts. maybe if I was also on speed I'd be interested in continuing, as is I will probably bid you farewell and wish all the best.
    - natpalmer1776 2mo ago
      Lol, I’m not on amphetamines today this is pure and genuine ADHD “hyperfocus” and my co-occurring “autism special interest” it makes communication on technical subjects hard, causes a lot of mischaracterizations like the one you just did, but I accept who I am and am happy with it. I don’t think it’s okay to dose a large swathe of the population with amphetamines because it’s “good enough” and neither does the global academic medical community. Individual practitioners I’ve found to be overworked and disinterested to the point of negligence in the united states. The correct manner of prescribing amphetamines is finding the lowest therapeutic dose for a patient (assuming you have already found the right drug) and checking with them every 30 to 90 days to make adjustments as needed. Amphetamines in excess do the things you described, though for dependency it is more behavioral than chemical dependence, unless you’re referring to meth (not the same thing), while properly prescribed stimulants in general offer more benefits than drawbacks. It’s not perfect, but for me and many others it is better than the alternative of nothing at all. Have a great day, I hope you refrain from ill informed personal attacks going forward!
      - thin_carapace 2mo ago
        it may have had the same effect but me being too lazy to keep going is very much not an attack and I do genuinely wish you well
        2mo ago

thin_carapace 2mo ago

rather than attributing this to the brain or system inherently, it seems more accurate to focus on the position of the brain relative to the system. I think that's what the other person was trying to get at, but you're already aware based on how you specifically qualified this. I don't think it's fair to bring up a topic and then shut down resulting discussion as non nuanced, public forums probably aren't a good idea if youre not comfortable with receiving conflicting takes. like, amphetamine is a hard drug regardless as to whether or not a legal framework encourages its usage. and I have friends who immediately received their amphetamine script after a quick chat and an A4 questionnaire, which didn't involve any assessment of brain chemical imbalance, therefore brain chemical imbalance might be a valid theory but it's irrelevant practically. and this discussion may be individual specific, but amphetamine prescription rates are sky rocketing, so at some point the generalized conversation does need to take place as to how many people can get dosed before problems start happening (eg widespread heart issues due to long term hard stimulant consumption)

natpalmer1776 2mo ago
Oh I’m fine with receiving conflicting takes. I wouldn’t post any of this on e.g. reddit because it offers no value to the users there. HN is a different crowd. I am “shutting down” comments here based on their perceived merit, not because they personally offend my sensibilities. I am comfortable holding people here to a higher standard of rigor, and accept when my own comments are responded to in kind, because that is the type of discourse I come here for! Pharmacologically speaking, classifying Adderall as a hard drug by industry terminology standards requires taking the patient into account, the dosage, and its effects on the patient. In the case I was referring to (mine) it is not a hard drug. The chemical imbalance I refer to isn’t something that is easily and REPEATABLY tested for and prescription of the drug itself is heavily guided by the individual respondent because that is how most psychiatric diagnostics are performed. The chemical imbalance is not the exact same between patients, and ADD/ADHD could be classified as multiple physiological conditions that all overlap into a single group of symptoms. For the purposes of treating it, prescribing a medication that treats a large subset of the underlying causes with no permanent adverse side effects if you treat the “wrong one” is largely good enough for most medical systems. Follow up appointments with providers checking with patients to find the right medication for their brain is part of that process. So yeah, you can fill out a questionnaire and get amphetamines you don’t need, or don’t treat your specific condition. That doesn’t invalidate the scientific research that has linked the symptom to the one of n chemical causes in the brain. So in discussions of both philosophical introspection of our society as well as academic discussion of drugs, my original comment is entirely relevant to those informed on this ONE specific mental disorder, of which there are MANY more that are equally as nuanced.
- thin_carapace 2mo ago
  hard drugs wreck the body and cause dependency. amphetamine does both those things regardless as to whether an accredited body claims otherwise. if you think it's ok to dose swathes of the population with hard drugs because it's 'good enough' then we completely disagree and I start to move more towards the other guy's viewpoint where it seems you are supporting the system over individuals. it isn't easy for non amphetamine users to parse long extracts. maybe if I was also on speed I'd be interested in continuing, as is I will probably bid you farewell and wish all the best.
  - natpalmer1776 2mo ago
    Lol, I’m not on amphetamines today this is pure and genuine ADHD “hyperfocus” and my co-occurring “autism special interest” it makes communication on technical subjects hard, causes a lot of mischaracterizations like the one you just did, but I accept who I am and am happy with it. I don’t think it’s okay to dose a large swathe of the population with amphetamines because it’s “good enough” and neither does the global academic medical community. Individual practitioners I’ve found to be overworked and disinterested to the point of negligence in the united states. The correct manner of prescribing amphetamines is finding the lowest therapeutic dose for a patient (assuming you have already found the right drug) and checking with them every 30 to 90 days to make adjustments as needed. Amphetamines in excess do the things you described, though for dependency it is more behavioral than chemical dependence, unless you’re referring to meth (not the same thing), while properly prescribed stimulants in general offer more benefits than drawbacks. It’s not perfect, but for me and many others it is better than the alternative of nothing at all. Have a great day, I hope you refrain from ill informed personal attacks going forward!
    - thin_carapace 2mo ago
      it may have had the same effect but me being too lazy to keep going is very much not an attack and I do genuinely wish you well
      - 2mo ago