3 ms·

> Hypertension was defined as a systolic blood pressure of 140 mm Hg or higher, a diastolic blood pressure of 90 mm Hg or higher, or the utilization of blood pr

> Hypertension was defined as a systolic blood pressure of 140 mm Hg or higher, a diastolic blood pressure of 90 mm Hg or higher, or the utilization of blood pressure-lowering medications. Whoever defined this, thank you for having common sense! This stood out to me because there are so many lunatics defining it as 121/80 or even 121/70 with the backwards idea that the systolic is more important. Worse still is when they insist that something as low as 100/65 is optimal despite complaints of dizziness. All the while hammering home that you should chug a million gallons of water and deprive yourself of sodium. It's like they're trying to make people miserable.

hombre_fatal 2mo ago
The 120/80 benchmark isn't lunacy. Most people in the west have issues with hypertension because that's the direction it goes due to the common risk factors. If you're at 135/85, and you're middle aged / younger, and your diet and lifestyle aren't already optimized, it's something you should probably care about, not look for the next highest rung on the ladder so that you can celebrate for being below it.
- sublinear 2mo ago
  You're completely missing the point. There's a significant amount of people middle aged and younger with numbers something like 125/75. They may have that same blood pressure never change from about 20 years old until their 70s. Elsewhere they'd be borderline normal, but "in the west" (really just the USA) they're considered stage 1 hypertension and it's anyone's guess what wild nonsense the doctor will tell them once that's in their chart. It's a total circus. Covering your own ass and screwing the patient over by assuming the worst is not preventative medicine. Overprescribing medication would cause harm if the patient is too naive for their own good despite doing everything else right. Nobody in their right mind should listen to that kind of doctor or take the medication.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - hombre_fatal 2mo ago
    Sure, at the end of the day you have to do your own research and consider whether any medical professional is under- or overreacting. It's why a second opinion makes sense. I have naturally higher blood pressure such that I'm usually 135/75 in the doctor's office. But I also run every day, I'm fit, and I have a dialed in diet. No doctor has given me flak for it. But I also see this thinking turn into empty contrarianism that is also dangerous. I know some keto/carnivore grifters say high blood pressure is fine and high blood cholesterol is fine and that you should actually double down on table salt and that as long as your a1c is good then nothing matters. Now people trying to navigate their numbers are even more confused.
    - sublinear 2mo ago
      I don't know much about keto/carnivore, but I think it might be worth picking apart the last thing you said. There are far more people spreading misinformation about reducing dietary cholesterol and sodium because authoritative sounding organizations promoted it for so long. The American Heart Association is paid by big pharma to talk out of both sides of their mouth. For decades they have strongly suggested that people consume less than 1500mg of sodium and minimize dietary cholesterol. In recent years they've been forced to admit that all that does is lead people to avoid better foods. Regardless, they still double down that the math makes sense on their old advice. They refuse to explain how. The fact of the matter is dietary cholesterol has no impact on blood cholesterol, and most people need more than 1500mg of sodium to prevent low blood pressure and stay hydrated. I have personally naively attempted to eat healthy by turning to salads, skipping dairy, and focusing on protein and carbs that contain lots of soluble fiber. I just ended up with severe constipation (too much fiber overall), vitamin deficiencies (animal products contain cholesterol), low blood pressure, and was getting dizzy and peeing all the time because I didn't think to get more sodium beyond seasoning. What fixed it? Add the dairy back in (greek yogurt and cheeses), don't skip old school fortified breads/cereals (the OG ultraprocessed multivitamin), offal/organ meats, eggs, seafood, nuts, avocado, olive oil, etc. It's one thing to say people have different bodies, but quite another to unwittingly support blatant lies.
KPGv2 2mo ago
The blood pressure-lowering medications was a kick in the crotch. I've had primary hypertension (i.e., doctors have no explanation for why) since I was a teenager playing fifteen hours of tennis a week with a low body fat percentage and healthy eating habits. Nothing I've ever tried has fixed this, including scratch-cooking everything for months, no meat, no salt, for months. Distance running. Weightlifting. Lots of sleep. I literally don't even have to work the rest of my life and am in my 40s, so no stress, either. I guess I'm just screwed!
- gpjt 2mo ago
  I must admit that I found it confusing that they lumped people with unmanaged hypertension in with those who were on meds to manage it. Those feel like separate groups. Does anyone here know more about this area, and why the combined group might make sense?
bufordtwain 2mo ago
Blood pressure varies significantly throughout the day and is often measured incorrectly at doctors offices. It's a good idea to get a home cuff BP machine and keep track of it yourself after reading up on how to use the machine. Otherwise you might get recommended medicine incorrectly, or you could get a false sense of security.

hombre_fatal 2mo ago

The 120/80 benchmark isn't lunacy. Most people in the west have issues with hypertension because that's the direction it goes due to the common risk factors. If you're at 135/85, and you're middle aged / younger, and your diet and lifestyle aren't already optimized, it's something you should probably care about, not look for the next highest rung on the ladder so that you can celebrate for being below it.

sublinear 2mo ago
You're completely missing the point. There's a significant amount of people middle aged and younger with numbers something like 125/75. They may have that same blood pressure never change from about 20 years old until their 70s. Elsewhere they'd be borderline normal, but "in the west" (really just the USA) they're considered stage 1 hypertension and it's anyone's guess what wild nonsense the doctor will tell them once that's in their chart. It's a total circus. Covering your own ass and screwing the patient over by assuming the worst is not preventative medicine. Overprescribing medication would cause harm if the patient is too naive for their own good despite doing everything else right. Nobody in their right mind should listen to that kind of doctor or take the medication.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- hombre_fatal 2mo ago
  Sure, at the end of the day you have to do your own research and consider whether any medical professional is under- or overreacting. It's why a second opinion makes sense. I have naturally higher blood pressure such that I'm usually 135/75 in the doctor's office. But I also run every day, I'm fit, and I have a dialed in diet. No doctor has given me flak for it. But I also see this thinking turn into empty contrarianism that is also dangerous. I know some keto/carnivore grifters say high blood pressure is fine and high blood cholesterol is fine and that you should actually double down on table salt and that as long as your a1c is good then nothing matters. Now people trying to navigate their numbers are even more confused.
  - sublinear 2mo ago
    I don't know much about keto/carnivore, but I think it might be worth picking apart the last thing you said. There are far more people spreading misinformation about reducing dietary cholesterol and sodium because authoritative sounding organizations promoted it for so long. The American Heart Association is paid by big pharma to talk out of both sides of their mouth. For decades they have strongly suggested that people consume less than 1500mg of sodium and minimize dietary cholesterol. In recent years they've been forced to admit that all that does is lead people to avoid better foods. Regardless, they still double down that the math makes sense on their old advice. They refuse to explain how. The fact of the matter is dietary cholesterol has no impact on blood cholesterol, and most people need more than 1500mg of sodium to prevent low blood pressure and stay hydrated. I have personally naively attempted to eat healthy by turning to salads, skipping dairy, and focusing on protein and carbs that contain lots of soluble fiber. I just ended up with severe constipation (too much fiber overall), vitamin deficiencies (animal products contain cholesterol), low blood pressure, and was getting dizzy and peeing all the time because I didn't think to get more sodium beyond seasoning. What fixed it? Add the dairy back in (greek yogurt and cheeses), don't skip old school fortified breads/cereals (the OG ultraprocessed multivitamin), offal/organ meats, eggs, seafood, nuts, avocado, olive oil, etc. It's one thing to say people have different bodies, but quite another to unwittingly support blatant lies.

KPGv2 2mo ago

The blood pressure-lowering medications was a kick in the crotch. I've had primary hypertension (i.e., doctors have no explanation for why) since I was a teenager playing fifteen hours of tennis a week with a low body fat percentage and healthy eating habits. Nothing I've ever tried has fixed this, including scratch-cooking everything for months, no meat, no salt, for months. Distance running. Weightlifting. Lots of sleep. I literally don't even have to work the rest of my life and am in my 40s, so no stress, either. I guess I'm just screwed!

gpjt 2mo ago
I must admit that I found it confusing that they lumped people with unmanaged hypertension in with those who were on meds to manage it. Those feel like separate groups. Does anyone here know more about this area, and why the combined group might make sense?

bufordtwain 2mo ago

Blood pressure varies significantly throughout the day and is often measured incorrectly at doctors offices. It's a good idea to get a home cuff BP machine and keep track of it yourself after reading up on how to use the machine. Otherwise you might get recommended medicine incorrectly, or you could get a false sense of security.