5 ms·

why is the Amen Brother breakbeat included in this software as if it's open source and GPL / MIT license? Just because something has been stolen a million times

by gizajob 2mo ago

why is the Amen Brother breakbeat included in this software as if it's open source and GPL / MIT license? Just because something has been stolen a million times, that doesn't make it public domain, it's still under copyright and owned by its publisher, who I'm pretty certain has never given it away under a free license.

noman-land 2mo ago
I'd be really curious for this particular sample to go to court because unless The Winstons have been aggressively enforcing this copyright they may have already lost it to the public domain.
- gizajob 2mo ago
  It would need to be defended in court yeah, but the absence of that defence doesn't automatically make it so it falls under the GPL and can be included in MIT licensed code just because the copyright holder doesn't know about it to defend it or refuse to be part of your software. Maybe you can argue the technicality but certainly not in the spirit of open source. There would be hundreds of other breakbeats you could include and give away under your MIT license if that were the case.
- aduty 2mo ago
  Pretty sure that aggressive defense is required for trademarks and not copyright. However it may be interesting whether or not it's still protected by copyright.
- amiga386 2mo ago
  That's not how copyright works. There is no "use it or lose it". You legally retain control of licensing for copying and distribution, including derivative works (samples) for the full copyright duration. In this case, it's a music recording published in the USA between 1957 and 1972, so the copyright expires on 15 February 2067: https://library.mi.edu/musiccopyright/duration https://library.mi.edu/musiccopyright/duration There's a limit of 3 years for you to bring a copyright infringement case after a specific infringement takes place, but that doesn't stop you from bringing further cases against further infringements. You don't "lose" copyright if you fail to self-police it, as you might lose a trademark. It gets very complicated around this specific 1969 sound recording and suing for copyright infringement, because prior to 1972, sound recordings were subject to US state law (presumably Georgia as the Holly Bee Music Co. was incorporated in Atlanta?) rather than federal law. Ultimately, no samplers paid The Winstons any royalties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen_break#Royalties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen_break#Royalties The drummer, Gregory Coleman, died homeless and penniless. Some UK DJs raised money for the bandleader, Richard Lewis Spencer, in 2015. He died in 2020. So there's probably not going to be anyone suing you for infringing the copyright on Amen, Brother, but it's not not infringement.
kyle-rb 2mo ago
It's worth noting that the particular recording they include[0] is not the original performance, it's a CC0 (public domain) recreation of the sample. So the recording itself has no copyright attached, but yes, there's still a question of the copyright on the composition. [0] https://freesound.org/people/Dolfeus/sounds/43389/ https://freesound.org/people/Dolfeus/sounds/43389/
- gizajob 2mo ago
  You might be correct but the link you've pasted is still of the original copyrighted breakbeat, not a recreation, on a site again falling victim to what it offers for free and Creative Commons not being free or Creative Commons.

by gizajob 2mo ago

noman-land 2mo ago

I'd be really curious for this particular sample to go to court because unless The Winstons have been aggressively enforcing this copyright they may have already lost it to the public domain.

gizajob 2mo ago
It would need to be defended in court yeah, but the absence of that defence doesn't automatically make it so it falls under the GPL and can be included in MIT licensed code just because the copyright holder doesn't know about it to defend it or refuse to be part of your software. Maybe you can argue the technicality but certainly not in the spirit of open source. There would be hundreds of other breakbeats you could include and give away under your MIT license if that were the case.
aduty 2mo ago
Pretty sure that aggressive defense is required for trademarks and not copyright. However it may be interesting whether or not it's still protected by copyright.
amiga386 2mo ago
That's not how copyright works. There is no "use it or lose it". You legally retain control of licensing for copying and distribution, including derivative works (samples) for the full copyright duration. In this case, it's a music recording published in the USA between 1957 and 1972, so the copyright expires on 15 February 2067: https://library.mi.edu/musiccopyright/duration https://library.mi.edu/musiccopyright/duration There's a limit of 3 years for you to bring a copyright infringement case after a specific infringement takes place, but that doesn't stop you from bringing further cases against further infringements. You don't "lose" copyright if you fail to self-police it, as you might lose a trademark. It gets very complicated around this specific 1969 sound recording and suing for copyright infringement, because prior to 1972, sound recordings were subject to US state law (presumably Georgia as the Holly Bee Music Co. was incorporated in Atlanta?) rather than federal law. Ultimately, no samplers paid The Winstons any royalties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen_break#Royalties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen_break#Royalties The drummer, Gregory Coleman, died homeless and penniless. Some UK DJs raised money for the bandleader, Richard Lewis Spencer, in 2015. He died in 2020. So there's probably not going to be anyone suing you for infringing the copyright on Amen, Brother, but it's not not infringement.

kyle-rb 2mo ago

It's worth noting that the particular recording they include[0] is not the original performance, it's a CC0 (public domain) recreation of the sample. So the recording itself has no copyright attached, but yes, there's still a question of the copyright on the composition. [0] https://freesound.org/people/Dolfeus/sounds/43389/ https://freesound.org/people/Dolfeus/sounds/43389/

gizajob 2mo ago
You might be correct but the link you've pasted is still of the original copyrighted breakbeat, not a recreation, on a site again falling victim to what it offers for free and Creative Commons not being free or Creative Commons.