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I suspect its popular in part, because it feels like fixing "the problem" without actually having to change your own behaviour at all. Don't need to change my g

by 8by3 2mo ago

I suspect its popular in part, because it feels like fixing "the problem" without actually having to change your own behaviour at all. Don't need to change my gas guzzler, or fly less, or change your diet. I support the goal, but worry its a distraction. https://tuhat.net/@sbr/p/change-for-the-climate https://tuhat.net/@sbr/p/change-for-the-climate

elmer2 2mo ago
What if AI can find a better solution in the future?
- tensility 2mo ago
  What if I hope for a genie to emerge from a lamp in order to grant me wishes?
keybored 2mo ago
The problem with political organizing in order to solve ecological or environmental problems is that it makes too much logical sense. For solving the problem, that is. It’s better to not build a data center in the first place than to build a data center and then fight against its use. It’s better to build and retrofit transportation architecture than to scold people who are not Work From Home workers to not drive to work. Which is why it gets attacked with non sequitors about feeling like you are solving the problem without having done your own personal penance.[1] Your linked ChatGPT-structured listicle is sound in what it proposes for the individual, but spends no time motivating the change or balancing out of political organizing. Like how to balance individual action versus political action? A big fat nothing. The one single hinge: evErY cHanGe MatteRs. This trivial observation is supposed to balance nine individual-effort phrased points versus one limp-wristed political action point. At least it admits its corporate stooge tradition by mentioning BP and “carbon footprint”. We are told that we need a cutthroat and efficient economy for commodities. For sweaters and automobiles. But for not ruining the planet? We need to incentivize individuals to not-do-bad-things. These are not serious ideas. > I support the goal, but worry its a distraction. You support people opposing data centers. Presumably you think that building them is bad. And presumably pressure against data centers can help them not be built. Which means that you would get less of the bad things. And yet this development which can cause less of the bad things is a distraction? This isn’t really coherent. [1]: Curiously this critique is about feeling like you are solving the problem without the consequence explicitly outlined as not solving the problem. Is feeling better while also helping solve the problem... a problem?
- watwut 2mo ago
  This is 100% correct and downvoted. I guess because some like distracting from actual working organizing.
watwut 2mo ago
> or change your diet. That part reads like parody. The changes on the individual consumer side do the least. They are just a deflection from what actually needs to be done - regulations and enforcement over industrial polluters.
- paulcole 2mo ago
  I disagree. If someone isn’t willing to make changes in their own life to support something they claim to care about, then I’m extremely unwilling to listen to them. It might not be dietary change to veganism, but when I ask, “What steps have you taken…” I want to hear a reasonable answer, not “Well if I change it doesn’t matter so someone else needs to change…”
  - watwut 2mo ago
    I want to see changes that actually have results rather then hear constant demands for pointless virtue signaling. "Unless you all start doing this ever expanding list of useless signals, I will oppose all actually useful regulations and changes" is being intentionally obtuse. "I will prevent wind powerplants, I will scream 'communism' each time some wants cleaner plants, I will pretend global warning does not exist, because every single person who wants to do opposite did not turned themselves into vegetarian and some people still fly". Oh, and I also pretend I am the only not hypocritical one here.
    - paulcole 2mo ago
      Oh no, I know that I am hypocritical if that is what you mean. If the Earth was cooling too fast and we were implored to drive more, fly more, etc., I wouldn't do it. It just happens that the way I like to live happens to be the best way to exist in the Western world when it comes to climate change.
  - keybored 2mo ago
    > It might not be dietary change to veganism, but when I ask, “What steps have you taken…” Agitating for political change.

by 8by3 2mo ago

elmer2 2mo ago

What if AI can find a better solution in the future?

tensility 2mo ago
What if I hope for a genie to emerge from a lamp in order to grant me wishes?

keybored 2mo ago

The problem with political organizing in order to solve ecological or environmental problems is that it makes too much logical sense. For solving the problem, that is. It’s better to not build a data center in the first place than to build a data center and then fight against its use. It’s better to build and retrofit transportation architecture than to scold people who are not Work From Home workers to not drive to work. Which is why it gets attacked with non sequitors about feeling like you are solving the problem without having done your own personal penance.[1] Your linked ChatGPT-structured listicle is sound in what it proposes for the individual, but spends no time motivating the change or balancing out of political organizing. Like how to balance individual action versus political action? A big fat nothing. The one single hinge: evErY cHanGe MatteRs. This trivial observation is supposed to balance nine individual-effort phrased points versus one limp-wristed political action point. At least it admits its corporate stooge tradition by mentioning BP and “carbon footprint”. We are told that we need a cutthroat and efficient economy for commodities. For sweaters and automobiles. But for not ruining the planet? We need to incentivize individuals to not-do-bad-things. These are not serious ideas. > I support the goal, but worry its a distraction. You support people opposing data centers. Presumably you think that building them is bad. And presumably pressure against data centers can help them not be built. Which means that you would get less of the bad things. And yet this development which can cause less of the bad things is a distraction? This isn’t really coherent. [1]: Curiously this critique is about feeling like you are solving the problem without the consequence explicitly outlined as not solving the problem. Is feeling better while also helping solve the problem... a problem?

watwut 2mo ago
This is 100% correct and downvoted. I guess because some like distracting from actual working organizing.

watwut 2mo ago

> or change your diet. That part reads like parody. The changes on the individual consumer side do the least. They are just a deflection from what actually needs to be done - regulations and enforcement over industrial polluters.

paulcole 2mo ago
I disagree. If someone isn’t willing to make changes in their own life to support something they claim to care about, then I’m extremely unwilling to listen to them. It might not be dietary change to veganism, but when I ask, “What steps have you taken…” I want to hear a reasonable answer, not “Well if I change it doesn’t matter so someone else needs to change…”
- watwut 2mo ago
  I want to see changes that actually have results rather then hear constant demands for pointless virtue signaling. "Unless you all start doing this ever expanding list of useless signals, I will oppose all actually useful regulations and changes" is being intentionally obtuse. "I will prevent wind powerplants, I will scream 'communism' each time some wants cleaner plants, I will pretend global warning does not exist, because every single person who wants to do opposite did not turned themselves into vegetarian and some people still fly". Oh, and I also pretend I am the only not hypocritical one here.
  - paulcole 2mo ago
    Oh no, I know that I am hypocritical if that is what you mean. If the Earth was cooling too fast and we were implored to drive more, fly more, etc., I wouldn't do it. It just happens that the way I like to live happens to be the best way to exist in the Western world when it comes to climate change.
- keybored 2mo ago
  > It might not be dietary change to veganism, but when I ask, “What steps have you taken…” Agitating for political change.