4 ms·

I would have agreed with this a few years ago but it's more nuanced than that. Commute time is built-in decompression time that can be very valuable. For examp

I would have agreed with this a few years ago but it's more nuanced than that. Commute time is built-in decompression time that can be very valuable. For example we have small kids and it's just not going to happen that I am going to tell my wife on a given morning or evening "take care of them while I go on a hike" or whatever. So on days they I decide to go to the office - I get about 2 hours (one hour each way) of reading time (or podcast time, if I were driving in) which realistically would not materialize any other way. I think many dads that are my fellow commuters see the commute as a sort of sacred solo space that's hard to maintain otherwise (eg the unspoken etiquette is if you see someone you know on the train you don't sit next to them so they can have their peace and quiet)

calvinmorrison 2mo ago
I am materially not a morning person. I will push until the last second in the morning to get ready. Forcing myself to wake up an hour earlier to drive in, get my coffee and let it percolate did wonders for my morning productivity. WFH lacks that so instead I got a dog which makes me get up at the ass crack but it's still not like a good mental workout of commuting in rush hour on i95 in a 80's sedan
- Infernal 2mo ago
  Ooo which 80's sedan? I had an E28 20 years ago that I still think about
  - calvinmorrison 2mo ago
    saab 900 turbo
fipar 2mo ago
I understand your point completely, as I used to feel the same way in the past. Then I realized it's just that being forced to do a commute for work makes it OK to potentially put extra load on your spouse, or to leave your kids with some other caretaker, but this doesn't have to be this way. It should be fine to take some time if you need it even if there's no job-related reason behind it. So now both my wife and myself take time for ourselves to get that decompression time when needed.
- stronglikedan 2mo ago
  That's why you just lock yourself in the bathroom like the rest of us! /s
  - fipar 2mo ago
    haha, when the weather is really bad, the bathroom with the lights off and headphones is great. Growing up with a single bathroom, a multi-bathroom home is just amazing. I do wonder if having a single bathroom as a child played any part in my reasonably good grasp of concurrency control though!
mschuster91 2mo ago
> Commute time is built-in decompression time that can be very valuable. That assumes you can meaningfully decompress. In a car, it's almost impossible (or at the very least, reckless) if you are the driver, and on most crowded stop-and-go routes even as a passenger. In any kind of public transit you have to deal with anything from rowdy children over beggars, drunks, thieves and other undesirables to keeping up with the latest construction BS and delays. Basically the only thing left is biking or walking, but that only works out on specific routes (i.e. well built sidewalks and separate, wide bike lanes)...
- fwip 2mo ago
  I found public transit commuting to be quite peaceful most days. The rowdy children happened infrequently enough that they were often a nice change of pace, and the "drunks and thieves and undesirables" simply didn't happen with a 9-5 commute. The worst part indeed was the random delays from construction, but on those days, car traffic was also crawling.
- xyzelement 2mo ago
  Maybe people have a different nervous system than I do but I find that people driving/stuck in traffic can easily enjoy a podcast and that driving takes no significant conscious effort most of the time.
  - mschuster91 2mo ago
    > but I find that people driving/stuck in traffic can easily enjoy a podcast Yeah... and this misconception "it's just stop and go" is a top contributor in accidents because people just don't take care about what is going on in front of them.
exe34 2mo ago
It's interesting that the only way your wife will let you have some time to yourself is if you're spending it commuting.
- BigTTYGothGF 2mo ago
  There's small children involved, you have to coordinate that kind of thing.
  - exe34 2mo ago
    Yes, and somehow commuting week after week is so much better than having a conversation with your wife. It's not like the kids just stop existing when you're commuting. The solution is there, but it can't be used unless you're suffering.
- xyzelement 2mo ago
  You misread. It doesn't occur to me to "ask for a break" in the moment with the kids, so the commute is a nice forcing function. I feel like this is a 100% shared experience for people in actual families vs people looking in from the outside trying to interpret.
  - exe34 2mo ago
    No, I think the other posts in the thread show that the experience is not universal.
    - xyzelement 2mo ago
      I feel like many of the posts are like hypothetical "if I had a wife and kids this is what I would tell her" - hard to tell if any of these people are actual parents. You got kids, exe34?
      - exe34 2mo ago
        Oh yes, everything changes when you have kids. You can't negotiate with your wife, you need to trap her into doing what you want.
andai 2mo ago
So, the same thing plus excuses and being stuck in a train?
esikich 2mo ago
Yeah there's nothing like that sweet hour of zen decompressing while fighting my way through rush hour traffic.
CincinnatiMan 2mo ago
Sounds like your wife needs to be more accommodating or understanding. My spouse understands decompression time and enables it, despite me working remotely.
- xyzelement 2mo ago
  My wife is awesome and if I said "I need x" I would have it. But reality is I am never gonna ask for that in the moment. The idea of a "forcing function" being beneficial is not new.
NopIdoN 2mo ago
> (eg the unspoken etiquette is if you see someone you know on the train you don't sit next to them so they can have their peace and quiet) Fanjambo!
jurgenburgen 2mo ago
Does your wife get 2 hours per day to decompress?
- anon84873628 2mo ago
  Of course she should (at least a couple days a week). And culture already seems to acknowledge and expect that. We have the trope of mom taking a long bubble bath, for example. "Man time" is usually portrayed as something we allow begrudgingly, like when he goes to the pub with the guys, or to watch sports, or to play video games. I rarely see quiet personal time portrayed as something men need or deserve.
- xyzelement 2mo ago
  Yes especially since she's gone par time at work. Why not?
IAmBroom 2mo ago
> I think many dads that are my fellow commuters see the commute as a sort of sacred solo space that's hard to maintain otherwise You said the quiet part out loud: During your commute you force your female partner to do more of the work tending kids and doing household chores. I agree that many dads enjoy this privileged escape of parenting duties.
- ButlerianJihad 2mo ago
  Come on! Who is forcing whom here? Women traditionally bear many child-rearing duties and it's the "unemployed" spouse, whatever their sex, who stays at home to do household chores, and that's the way it is. If anyone's forcing anyone, it's the employer and "the system" that conspire to force people into cars and onto the road for far too much of the workday. I didn't have children, but when I lived with family, friends, or significant other, I felt robbed. I felt robbed by my career because the commute was unpaid time, off-the-clock, where I was denied the time to be present, at home, with my loved ones, or doing chores, or hobbies. So, I was robbed; I wasn't forcing my girlfriend to cook or clean or be alone. I didn't have the agency to make that decision: it is made for me and all men like me. When I drove a car, at least the commute was as fast as possible. When I ride public transit on a commute, the times become ungodly, and they truly eat away at your unpaid free time! At least public transit costs pennies compared to maintaining and driving a car! Wives and mothers deserve some alone-time. It's incumbent on the husband to carve this out so that she doesn't burn out. It's incumbent on fathers to make time, quality time, for their children. But it's even more incumbent on these couples to earn money, do chores, and put in the work for raising their children. That's why we've got schools, because they step in and do the childcare, in loco parentis, and hopefully children have extended families that also participate in those duties.
- xyzelement 2mo ago
  I have never seen anyone with an actual spouse/family look at their partner and relationship through this weird adversarial-gender-struggle lens implied in your question. It's hilarious to think that my wife would begrudge me a commute (I have to go to work) just because I am able to see something positive in it - anymore than I would resent my wife for having gone part time at work and placing more economic "burden" on me. What you and your perspective are missing is that real families have a shared goal (raise the family) and the difference people flex in to make it happen. If my wife texts me that the kids are down and she's going to bed early - while I am stuck at the airport because a work flight is 7 hours delayed - I am happy for her, not seeing this as cause for some insane resentment.

calvinmorrison 2mo ago

I am materially not a morning person. I will push until the last second in the morning to get ready. Forcing myself to wake up an hour earlier to drive in, get my coffee and let it percolate did wonders for my morning productivity. WFH lacks that so instead I got a dog which makes me get up at the ass crack but it's still not like a good mental workout of commuting in rush hour on i95 in a 80's sedan

Infernal 2mo ago
Ooo which 80's sedan? I had an E28 20 years ago that I still think about
- calvinmorrison 2mo ago
  saab 900 turbo

fipar 2mo ago

I understand your point completely, as I used to feel the same way in the past. Then I realized it's just that being forced to do a commute for work makes it OK to potentially put extra load on your spouse, or to leave your kids with some other caretaker, but this doesn't have to be this way. It should be fine to take some time if you need it even if there's no job-related reason behind it. So now both my wife and myself take time for ourselves to get that decompression time when needed.

stronglikedan 2mo ago
That's why you just lock yourself in the bathroom like the rest of us! /s
- fipar 2mo ago
  haha, when the weather is really bad, the bathroom with the lights off and headphones is great. Growing up with a single bathroom, a multi-bathroom home is just amazing. I do wonder if having a single bathroom as a child played any part in my reasonably good grasp of concurrency control though!

mschuster91 2mo ago

> Commute time is built-in decompression time that can be very valuable. That assumes you can meaningfully decompress. In a car, it's almost impossible (or at the very least, reckless) if you are the driver, and on most crowded stop-and-go routes even as a passenger. In any kind of public transit you have to deal with anything from rowdy children over beggars, drunks, thieves and other undesirables to keeping up with the latest construction BS and delays. Basically the only thing left is biking or walking, but that only works out on specific routes (i.e. well built sidewalks and separate, wide bike lanes)...

fwip 2mo ago
I found public transit commuting to be quite peaceful most days. The rowdy children happened infrequently enough that they were often a nice change of pace, and the "drunks and thieves and undesirables" simply didn't happen with a 9-5 commute. The worst part indeed was the random delays from construction, but on those days, car traffic was also crawling.
xyzelement 2mo ago
Maybe people have a different nervous system than I do but I find that people driving/stuck in traffic can easily enjoy a podcast and that driving takes no significant conscious effort most of the time.
- mschuster91 2mo ago
  > but I find that people driving/stuck in traffic can easily enjoy a podcast Yeah... and this misconception "it's just stop and go" is a top contributor in accidents because people just don't take care about what is going on in front of them.

exe34 2mo ago

It's interesting that the only way your wife will let you have some time to yourself is if you're spending it commuting.

BigTTYGothGF 2mo ago
There's small children involved, you have to coordinate that kind of thing.
- exe34 2mo ago
  Yes, and somehow commuting week after week is so much better than having a conversation with your wife. It's not like the kids just stop existing when you're commuting. The solution is there, but it can't be used unless you're suffering.
xyzelement 2mo ago
You misread. It doesn't occur to me to "ask for a break" in the moment with the kids, so the commute is a nice forcing function. I feel like this is a 100% shared experience for people in actual families vs people looking in from the outside trying to interpret.
- exe34 2mo ago
  No, I think the other posts in the thread show that the experience is not universal.
  - xyzelement 2mo ago
    I feel like many of the posts are like hypothetical "if I had a wife and kids this is what I would tell her" - hard to tell if any of these people are actual parents. You got kids, exe34?
    - exe34 2mo ago
      Oh yes, everything changes when you have kids. You can't negotiate with your wife, you need to trap her into doing what you want.

andai 2mo ago

So, the same thing plus excuses and being stuck in a train?

esikich 2mo ago

Yeah there's nothing like that sweet hour of zen decompressing while fighting my way through rush hour traffic.

CincinnatiMan 2mo ago

Sounds like your wife needs to be more accommodating or understanding. My spouse understands decompression time and enables it, despite me working remotely.

xyzelement 2mo ago
My wife is awesome and if I said "I need x" I would have it. But reality is I am never gonna ask for that in the moment. The idea of a "forcing function" being beneficial is not new.

NopIdoN 2mo ago

> (eg the unspoken etiquette is if you see someone you know on the train you don't sit next to them so they can have their peace and quiet) Fanjambo!

jurgenburgen 2mo ago

Does your wife get 2 hours per day to decompress?

anon84873628 2mo ago
Of course she should (at least a couple days a week). And culture already seems to acknowledge and expect that. We have the trope of mom taking a long bubble bath, for example. "Man time" is usually portrayed as something we allow begrudgingly, like when he goes to the pub with the guys, or to watch sports, or to play video games. I rarely see quiet personal time portrayed as something men need or deserve.
xyzelement 2mo ago
Yes especially since she's gone par time at work. Why not?

IAmBroom 2mo ago

> I think many dads that are my fellow commuters see the commute as a sort of sacred solo space that's hard to maintain otherwise You said the quiet part out loud: During your commute you force your female partner to do more of the work tending kids and doing household chores. I agree that many dads enjoy this privileged escape of parenting duties.

ButlerianJihad 2mo ago
Come on! Who is forcing whom here? Women traditionally bear many child-rearing duties and it's the "unemployed" spouse, whatever their sex, who stays at home to do household chores, and that's the way it is. If anyone's forcing anyone, it's the employer and "the system" that conspire to force people into cars and onto the road for far too much of the workday. I didn't have children, but when I lived with family, friends, or significant other, I felt robbed. I felt robbed by my career because the commute was unpaid time, off-the-clock, where I was denied the time to be present, at home, with my loved ones, or doing chores, or hobbies. So, I was robbed; I wasn't forcing my girlfriend to cook or clean or be alone. I didn't have the agency to make that decision: it is made for me and all men like me. When I drove a car, at least the commute was as fast as possible. When I ride public transit on a commute, the times become ungodly, and they truly eat away at your unpaid free time! At least public transit costs pennies compared to maintaining and driving a car! Wives and mothers deserve some alone-time. It's incumbent on the husband to carve this out so that she doesn't burn out. It's incumbent on fathers to make time, quality time, for their children. But it's even more incumbent on these couples to earn money, do chores, and put in the work for raising their children. That's why we've got schools, because they step in and do the childcare, in loco parentis, and hopefully children have extended families that also participate in those duties.
xyzelement 2mo ago
I have never seen anyone with an actual spouse/family look at their partner and relationship through this weird adversarial-gender-struggle lens implied in your question. It's hilarious to think that my wife would begrudge me a commute (I have to go to work) just because I am able to see something positive in it - anymore than I would resent my wife for having gone part time at work and placing more economic "burden" on me. What you and your perspective are missing is that real families have a shared goal (raise the family) and the difference people flex in to make it happen. If my wife texts me that the kids are down and she's going to bed early - while I am stuck at the airport because a work flight is 7 hours delayed - I am happy for her, not seeing this as cause for some insane resentment.