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> does economics support that statement always? Economics itself is the enemy. It is the source of that statement. It's so ubiquitous that we cannot even conce

> does economics support that statement always? Economics itself is the enemy. It is the source of that statement. It's so ubiquitous that we cannot even conceive of a life without it. The friend wanted scarce things, so naturally she wanted everyone in society working to produce those things for her. Economics arise out of scarcity. There is not enough for everyone, therefore we must economize, we must decide who gets the limited amount of goods and resources. We assume everyone should be working because if they aren't they are getting resources without contributing back their own resources, such as their limited time, body and cognition. That's an inherent unfairness, and is the "they're getting a free pass" sentiment that's all too common. I'm working, why aren't they? To fix this, we must somehow achieve the fabled post scarcity society. Automate everything so thoroughly the price of everything becomes literally zero. This destroys the economy. It doesn't matter anymore whether people are working. There is no further need to economize if everything is abundant. "I mean, I’d like to be able to buy more stuff" must still be satisfied, except she doesn't even need to buy it any longer, it just sort of materializes like it grows on trees. That is the dream. Necessary technological upheaval aside, the one major roadblock to achieving the dream is artificial scarcity. We've got corporations conjuring up scarcity where there is none. The internet is the closest to artificial scarcity we've ever been, and it is so subversive it destroys their business models. The entire intellectual property industry must be wiped out if the dream is to be achieved.

simianwords 3mo ago
> To fix this, we must somehow achieve the fabled post scarcity society. Automate everything so thoroughly the price of everything becomes literally zero. This destroys the economy. It doesn't matter anymore whether people are working. There is no further need to economize if everything is abundant. sure but the people opposing automation are the people on the left - the socialists and neo-luddities. the ones that are for automation are the billionaires - this makes your class warfare rhetoric more complicated..
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  > the socialists Every socialist wants post scarcity deep down. In fact, it's what Marx promised them since the beginning. Socialism is an ideological and practical dead end. They must be resisted at all costs. It's still an economic model. They won't destroy the economy, they will centralize it in the hands of the state. Don't seize the means of production, distribute them. Give everyone an AI and a replicator. Personal manufacturing capabilities. We must attack things like the very concept of trillion dollar semiconductor fabs. Everybody should be able to make their own things. Just like we can magically conjure up free software on a laptop at home. > neo-luddities Don't know enough about this to write coherently about the subject. > the ones that are for automation are the billionaires Contemptible, but I believe we have better chances of success if we try to collapse capitalism from within.
  - tjwebbnorfolk 3mo ago
    > must attack things like the very concept of trillion dollar semiconductor fabs Computers used to be the size of these fabs. Now we have them in our pockets. Not because we need to attack or rebel or something. It's because a lot of people worked very hard over many decades to make it possible. And it wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts -- it's because they had bills to pay and mouths to feed. No matter how smart you are, it is not possible to create a GPU in one's basement. And no matter how holy you think you are, you need incentives to invest the time and effort to make this happen.
    - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
      > No matter how smart you are, it is not possible to create a GPU in one's basement. Is this really such a law of the universe or just insufficient technology? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30043719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30043719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46178789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46178789
      - tjwebbnorfolk 3mo ago
        I mean, there's not like some "big silicon" conspiracy keeping people from homelabbing their own chips. I suppose we'll find out at some point, but it sure as hell isn't possible in 2026 AD.
tjwebbnorfolk 3mo ago
> Economics itself is the enemy. Economics arise out of scarcity. Scarcity is a timeless fact of life in a finite world, it's not some abstract invention by "economics". The problem isn't that more people want more things than they can have. The hardest possible life is that of a single human alone on a planet abundant in all natural resources. People and our inventions and our work and our ambitions to improve things for the next generation are the very things that reduce scarcity for other people we share this planet with.
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  > Scarcity is a timeless fact of life in a finite world I agree, and I think the rest of your post contains the key idea: > reduce scarcity Scarcity will never be zero, and it doesn't need to be. It just needs to be infinitesimal, close enough to zero for economics to become irrelevant.
  - tjwebbnorfolk 3mo ago
    Well, my ancestors would already say that our scarcity is effectively zero. Yet we still have political arguments about healthcare and I get irritated when my AI service says I'm out of quota, two things that didn't exist 4 or 5 generations ago. Unless you consider whiskey and opium to be healthcare. It's amazing what we've adapted to.
  - sscaryterry 3mo ago
    Scarcity can and is manipulated, see de Beers!
    - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
      Yes. All forms of artificial scarcity must be declared to be literally illegal. Diamonds are nothing, we've got the entire intellectual property industry to contend with.
      - _DeadFred_ 3mo ago
strken 3mo ago
We're getting close to post-scarcity on calories at this point. You can feed someone three meals of rice and beans for under an hour of minimum wage labour in most of the developed world, which is pretty neat even if the extra money is going to housing and non-food essentials.

simianwords 3mo ago

> To fix this, we must somehow achieve the fabled post scarcity society. Automate everything so thoroughly the price of everything becomes literally zero. This destroys the economy. It doesn't matter anymore whether people are working. There is no further need to economize if everything is abundant. sure but the people opposing automation are the people on the left - the socialists and neo-luddities. the ones that are for automation are the billionaires - this makes your class warfare rhetoric more complicated..

matheusmoreira 3mo ago
> the socialists Every socialist wants post scarcity deep down. In fact, it's what Marx promised them since the beginning. Socialism is an ideological and practical dead end. They must be resisted at all costs. It's still an economic model. They won't destroy the economy, they will centralize it in the hands of the state. Don't seize the means of production, distribute them. Give everyone an AI and a replicator. Personal manufacturing capabilities. We must attack things like the very concept of trillion dollar semiconductor fabs. Everybody should be able to make their own things. Just like we can magically conjure up free software on a laptop at home. > neo-luddities Don't know enough about this to write coherently about the subject. > the ones that are for automation are the billionaires Contemptible, but I believe we have better chances of success if we try to collapse capitalism from within.
- tjwebbnorfolk 3mo ago
  > must attack things like the very concept of trillion dollar semiconductor fabs Computers used to be the size of these fabs. Now we have them in our pockets. Not because we need to attack or rebel or something. It's because a lot of people worked very hard over many decades to make it possible. And it wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts -- it's because they had bills to pay and mouths to feed. No matter how smart you are, it is not possible to create a GPU in one's basement. And no matter how holy you think you are, you need incentives to invest the time and effort to make this happen.
  - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
    > No matter how smart you are, it is not possible to create a GPU in one's basement. Is this really such a law of the universe or just insufficient technology? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30043719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30043719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46178789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46178789
    - tjwebbnorfolk 3mo ago
      I mean, there's not like some "big silicon" conspiracy keeping people from homelabbing their own chips. I suppose we'll find out at some point, but it sure as hell isn't possible in 2026 AD.

tjwebbnorfolk 3mo ago

> Economics itself is the enemy. Economics arise out of scarcity. Scarcity is a timeless fact of life in a finite world, it's not some abstract invention by "economics". The problem isn't that more people want more things than they can have. The hardest possible life is that of a single human alone on a planet abundant in all natural resources. People and our inventions and our work and our ambitions to improve things for the next generation are the very things that reduce scarcity for other people we share this planet with.

matheusmoreira 3mo ago
> Scarcity is a timeless fact of life in a finite world I agree, and I think the rest of your post contains the key idea: > reduce scarcity Scarcity will never be zero, and it doesn't need to be. It just needs to be infinitesimal, close enough to zero for economics to become irrelevant.
- tjwebbnorfolk 3mo ago
  Well, my ancestors would already say that our scarcity is effectively zero. Yet we still have political arguments about healthcare and I get irritated when my AI service says I'm out of quota, two things that didn't exist 4 or 5 generations ago. Unless you consider whiskey and opium to be healthcare. It's amazing what we've adapted to.
- sscaryterry 3mo ago
  Scarcity can and is manipulated, see de Beers!
  - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
    Yes. All forms of artificial scarcity must be declared to be literally illegal. Diamonds are nothing, we've got the entire intellectual property industry to contend with.
    - _DeadFred_ 3mo ago

strken 3mo ago

We're getting close to post-scarcity on calories at this point. You can feed someone three meals of rice and beans for under an hour of minimum wage labour in most of the developed world, which is pretty neat even if the extra money is going to housing and non-food essentials.