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In the past 15 years, I have purchased five Lumix cameras including the new L10 (which I have yet to receive). I like their cameras a lot. The dedication to pur

by Wistar 2mo ago

In the past 15 years, I have purchased five Lumix cameras including the new L10 (which I have yet to receive). I like their cameras a lot. The dedication to pursue this battle is another reason I am certain to buy more.

KennyBlanken 2mo ago
....what? Lumix and Red cameras have almost no market overlap. Only one model series even comes close to Red's cheapest camera.
- dboreham 2mo ago
  I think you have your answer right there.
- Lammy 2mo ago
  > Lumix and Red cameras have almost no market overlap. Wrong, in the sense that market overlap doesn't matter. Here's an example of a Micro Four Thirds camera (system stewarded by Panasonic) that had to nerf its RAW output in a firmware update due to this patent: https://web.archive.org/web/20220828070504/http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/25023/z-cam-is-so-lazy-that-they-violated-the-famous-red-patent-and-will-pay-for-it-soon https://web.archive.org/web/20220828070504/http://www.person... > Z-CAM […] violated the famous RED patent and will pay for it soon > The ZRAW actually stores RAW directly from Bayer sensor and not YUV as claimed (conversion happens in computer software, camera stores real linear raw). It means that they actually store real RAW on Z-CAM E2! https://web.archive.org/web/20250906030132/http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/25185/zraw-is-not-raw-anymore https://web.archive.org/web/20250906030132/http://www.person... > ZRAW is not RAW anymore. > After firmware v0.94.1 it's an AES-encrypted MOV-container-corrupted overXORred shit, that contains only HEVC bitstream.
dagmx 2mo ago
Unless I’ve missed it; Lumix has nothing to do with this long standing patent battle. Could you elaborate on the supposed relationship?
- tim-- 2mo ago
  Lumix is a brand of cameras owned by Panasonic, the people who fought this battle in court. Don't the Lumix cameras support 4k recording with the Apple ProRES codec? https://www.dpreview.com/news/3429948804/apple-loses-patent-lawsuit-will-have-to-pay-red-royalties-for-prores-raw-format/ https://www.dpreview.com/news/3429948804/apple-loses-patent-...
  - dagmx 2mo ago
    Ah fair, I forgot Panasonic owned Lumix. Though the lawsuits are more complex with multiple parties suing RED, of which Nikon also fought RED and ended up buying them out to win that side of the battle. On the panasonic side it was more of their cinema line of cameras rather than Lumix that was the driver (though they have trickle down) And prores isn’t necessarily RAW, it’s just one of the variants.

by Wistar 2mo ago

KennyBlanken 2mo ago

....what? Lumix and Red cameras have almost no market overlap. Only one model series even comes close to Red's cheapest camera.

dboreham 2mo ago
I think you have your answer right there.
Lammy 2mo ago
> Lumix and Red cameras have almost no market overlap. Wrong, in the sense that market overlap doesn't matter. Here's an example of a Micro Four Thirds camera (system stewarded by Panasonic) that had to nerf its RAW output in a firmware update due to this patent: https://web.archive.org/web/20220828070504/http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/25023/z-cam-is-so-lazy-that-they-violated-the-famous-red-patent-and-will-pay-for-it-soon https://web.archive.org/web/20220828070504/http://www.person... > Z-CAM […] violated the famous RED patent and will pay for it soon > The ZRAW actually stores RAW directly from Bayer sensor and not YUV as claimed (conversion happens in computer software, camera stores real linear raw). It means that they actually store real RAW on Z-CAM E2! https://web.archive.org/web/20250906030132/http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/25185/zraw-is-not-raw-anymore https://web.archive.org/web/20250906030132/http://www.person... > ZRAW is not RAW anymore. > After firmware v0.94.1 it's an AES-encrypted MOV-container-corrupted overXORred shit, that contains only HEVC bitstream.

dagmx 2mo ago

Unless I’ve missed it; Lumix has nothing to do with this long standing patent battle. Could you elaborate on the supposed relationship?

tim-- 2mo ago
Lumix is a brand of cameras owned by Panasonic, the people who fought this battle in court. Don't the Lumix cameras support 4k recording with the Apple ProRES codec? https://www.dpreview.com/news/3429948804/apple-loses-patent-lawsuit-will-have-to-pay-red-royalties-for-prores-raw-format/ https://www.dpreview.com/news/3429948804/apple-loses-patent-...
- dagmx 2mo ago
  Ah fair, I forgot Panasonic owned Lumix. Though the lawsuits are more complex with multiple parties suing RED, of which Nikon also fought RED and ended up buying them out to win that side of the battle. On the panasonic side it was more of their cinema line of cameras rather than Lumix that was the driver (though they have trickle down) And prores isn’t necessarily RAW, it’s just one of the variants.