4 ms·

If you're in the bottom 70% of the working class anywhere in western Europe you'll live pretty much the same way: you will never be able to afford a new car, yo

If you're in the bottom 70% of the working class anywhere in western Europe you'll live pretty much the same way: you will never be able to afford a new car, you'll never be able to retire early, you most likely will never own your own place. Nobody feels rich because the entire system is built by parasites exploiting the bottom 2/3rd. The only meaningful difference is how often and how far you can go in vacation and how much a good little consumer bitch you can be, and if that's how you measure your quality of life you already lost the game

KeplerBoy 2mo ago
You are not European, are you? I know plenty of working class people working ordinary skilled labor jobs who own their homes and drive decent cars. Some people choose to keep renting because we have strong laws guaranteeing renter's rights. Contracts are often unlimited duration with reasonable prices. Also retiring early is not about the money in your bank account around here. You retire early by using certain government schemes where you might qualify for early retirement by working a physical job, or by reducing your hours to 10 hours are week while getting a full subsidized salary.
- oytis 2mo ago
  Nobody buys new though, these are for companies and posh people
  - KeplerBoy 2mo ago
    That's shifting a bit with electric cars I feel, because people are worried about used batteries. But yes, generally new cars are often just a bad deal.
- toasty228 2mo ago
  I'm a software engineer in the capital of the supposed #1 EU economy and at best I'd be able to afford a 50sqm flat in a ghetto tier neighborhood. I'm actually moving to Eastern Europe because of this bs
  - surgical_fire 2mo ago
    Germany? I happen to know a few software Engineers living there. Berlin is pretty expensive, and some had to live in more outskirt areas (Potsdam for example). But none were living in gettho tier neighborhoods.
  - pndy 2mo ago
    Poland isn't any better in that matter; we're still facing huge property development and housing "abnormalities", or as is being said here - pathologies.
ajuc 2mo ago
87% of Poles own a house in comparison to 67% in US.
- WhrRTheBaboons 2mo ago
  you got a source for that?
  - ajuc 2mo ago
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/home-ownership-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/home-owne... Also my bad, it's 65.7% for US and 87.3% for Poland
    - WhrRTheBaboons 2mo ago
      A website does not a source make. It's citing a wikipedia article, which itself has been flagged for needing a better source [0]. The wikipedia in turn cites Statista [1], which claims this is "original data" that cannot be verified without a paid account. Additionally, the number itself seems to actually be taken from Eurostat (an actual source) [2], which helpfully defines what they mean as the 87% for Poland. Surprise, surprise, it's not actually "87% of Poles own a house". It's "87% of Poles live in households owning or renting their home". That's also conveniently missing from another headline-grabbing numbers like "16% share of housing costs to total disposable income", which refers to the total income of the entire household. And if you want to delve deeper as for why these numbers might be what they are, you have to consider the following too: Poland has Europe's 2nd highest share (>50%) of adults living with in their parents' home [3], with 3rd lowest average number of rooms per person [2], 2nd highest household size (number of people) [2], with one third of people living in overcrowded homes (3rd highest in Europe, vs the EU average of 16%)[2]. All this being said, I don't doubt for a second that US is much worse in this regard. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owner-occupancy#International_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owner-occupancy#International_... [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/246355/home-ownership-rate-in-europe/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/246355/home-ownership-ra... [2] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/interactive-publications/housing-2025 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/interactive-publications/h... [3] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_lvps09/default/table?lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_lvps09/de...

KeplerBoy 2mo ago

You are not European, are you? I know plenty of working class people working ordinary skilled labor jobs who own their homes and drive decent cars. Some people choose to keep renting because we have strong laws guaranteeing renter's rights. Contracts are often unlimited duration with reasonable prices. Also retiring early is not about the money in your bank account around here. You retire early by using certain government schemes where you might qualify for early retirement by working a physical job, or by reducing your hours to 10 hours are week while getting a full subsidized salary.

oytis 2mo ago
Nobody buys new though, these are for companies and posh people
- KeplerBoy 2mo ago
  That's shifting a bit with electric cars I feel, because people are worried about used batteries. But yes, generally new cars are often just a bad deal.
toasty228 2mo ago
I'm a software engineer in the capital of the supposed #1 EU economy and at best I'd be able to afford a 50sqm flat in a ghetto tier neighborhood. I'm actually moving to Eastern Europe because of this bs
- surgical_fire 2mo ago
  Germany? I happen to know a few software Engineers living there. Berlin is pretty expensive, and some had to live in more outskirt areas (Potsdam for example). But none were living in gettho tier neighborhoods.
- pndy 2mo ago
  Poland isn't any better in that matter; we're still facing huge property development and housing "abnormalities", or as is being said here - pathologies.

ajuc 2mo ago

87% of Poles own a house in comparison to 67% in US.

WhrRTheBaboons 2mo ago
you got a source for that?
- ajuc 2mo ago
  https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/home-ownership-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/home-owne... Also my bad, it's 65.7% for US and 87.3% for Poland
  - WhrRTheBaboons 2mo ago
    A website does not a source make. It's citing a wikipedia article, which itself has been flagged for needing a better source [0]. The wikipedia in turn cites Statista [1], which claims this is "original data" that cannot be verified without a paid account. Additionally, the number itself seems to actually be taken from Eurostat (an actual source) [2], which helpfully defines what they mean as the 87% for Poland. Surprise, surprise, it's not actually "87% of Poles own a house". It's "87% of Poles live in households owning or renting their home". That's also conveniently missing from another headline-grabbing numbers like "16% share of housing costs to total disposable income", which refers to the total income of the entire household. And if you want to delve deeper as for why these numbers might be what they are, you have to consider the following too: Poland has Europe's 2nd highest share (>50%) of adults living with in their parents' home [3], with 3rd lowest average number of rooms per person [2], 2nd highest household size (number of people) [2], with one third of people living in overcrowded homes (3rd highest in Europe, vs the EU average of 16%)[2]. All this being said, I don't doubt for a second that US is much worse in this regard. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owner-occupancy#International_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owner-occupancy#International_... [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/246355/home-ownership-rate-in-europe/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/246355/home-ownership-ra... [2] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/interactive-publications/housing-2025 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/interactive-publications/h... [3] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_lvps09/default/table?lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_lvps09/de...